Episode 347 · 22 October 2026 · 57:25
Get A.I. to do your job (so you can enjoy the good parts), with Noel Andrews
Featuring Noel Andrews
Get A.I. to do your job (so you can enjoy the good parts), with Noel Andrews
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Al ElliottWhen most people hear AI at work, they picture the same thing: a robot at their desk and them clearing it out.
Leanne ElliottOur guest today wants AI to do most of your job, and he thinks that's the best news you'll hear all year.
Noel AndrewsIt's really exciting. And I've got a good friend of mine, uh, runs a SaaS business that he was surrounded by other SaaS business owners who were letting people go, reducing their teams. And he's like, y'all are crazy. He's like, I've got a great team. It's about 30 people in his business. And he's like, they can now do 5 to 10x more than they could before. This is the most exciting time I've ever had of running a business.
Al ElliottOur guest today is Noel Andrews. He runs JobRack, which helps US and UK companies hire remote talent across Eastern Europe, including in Bosnia and Herzegovina, where we live. He lives in Claude code. He builds his own AI tools, and he's using all of it to hire more people, not fewer.
Leanne ElliottNoel has a word for the stuff that gets in the way of good work: gunk. The logins, the extra clicks, the admin nobody joined the company to do. Hand the gunk to AI and people get their time back for the work only humans can do.
Al ElliottThings like walking along the Thames recording personal videos for clients while AI does the rest, or turning up to an event already knowing the host makes Ibiza house mixes. True story.
Leanne ElliottSo if AI makes you nervous, stay with us. This one might change your mind. Hello and welcome to Truth, Lies and Work, the award-winning podcast where behavioural science meets workplace culture, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network The audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne. I'm a Chartered Occupational Psychologist.
Al ElliottMy name is Al. I'm a business owner.
Leanne ElliottAnd we are here to help you simplify the science of work and create amazing workplace cultures.
Al ElliottWe're going to meet Noel after this very short break, and I hope he'll convince you that AI should take your job. Well, most of it anyway. See you in a second. If you have support tickets in your business, then this is going to sound frighteningly familiar. You open the queue on Monday morning, 200 tickets before even the first assistant. Sip of coffee and you already know what's in there. Password reset requests, order updates, the same questions over and over again. Hey, what if that part of the job just handled itself?
Leanne ElliottHubSpot Customer Agent resolves those repeat tickets using your actual CRM data and knowledge base so your team can focus on the conversations that actually need them and your customers get answers faster.
Al ElliottCheck out hubspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.
Noel AndrewsI'm Noel Andrews, based here in London. I'm a big fan of riverside walks and nice cocktail bars here. And I run a business called JobRack, where we help mainly US and UK clients hire really, really amazing remote team members from Eastern Europe. And unusually in this age of AI, we're very, very focused on the human connection side, right? If you want to hire real humans to do the things that only we can do, then you can't use AI to do that.
Al ElliottI love this so much because there's so many platforms out there who are saying hire an agent, not a person, and you're doing very much the opposite. I want to— there's lots and lots of things I want to talk to you about today. We both want to talk to you about, but the first thing is you have a phrase, something about gunk busting. Can you tell us what it is and what you actually— what it actually means?
Noel AndrewsYeah. So we have gunk busting sessions with my team. So we're a fully remote team. And one of the things that we go after is, you know, dealing with the gunk in the business. You know what it's like? It's like, oh, where's the login for that system? Or I have to log in twice, or I have to do extra clicks, things like that. And so we did it in real life on our team retreat last year. We actually got slime and gunk and got it all over our hands to really kind of bring to life this idea of how do we make things easier, right? Whether that's with AI, whether that's with processes, systems, just how can we make it like effortless flow, right? How can we make email fun, right? How can we make coming to work really enjoyable so that we can focus, kind of being like zone of genius, right? That's how I think about it. And anything that gets in the way of that, like 2-factor authentication, cookie prompts, all of this rubbish is gunk. And so it's how can we minimize that as much as possible so that we can, you know, kind of enjoy what we're doing as much as we can.
Al ElliottSo can you talk us through an actual example? I know you talked there about 2-factor authentication, about the other bits and pieces you took out, but is there something that sticks out in your mind as we removed this gunk and it allowed our humans to do better work?
Noel AndrewsYeah, 100%. So, I mean, there's loads of little examples and some big ones. So a good example, right? Naturally, you know, we want to help people hire, right? And so we have sales as part of that. And we want to keep an eye on what our clients and contacts are doing on LinkedIn. But we've got thousands of contacts, right? And we don't necessarily enjoy actually just sitting on LinkedIn browsing content, right? So we built a scraper that basically kind of scrapes the LinkedIn posts for us, and then kind of like compares them and says, right, which Which ones of these are from our clients, which ones have got something we might want to comment on, and just gives us a really nice simple list that we can then go and do the human bit, which is like it, comment on it, reach out, see if there's something we can help them with. But it, you know, you couldn't, you'd need an army, I'd need an army of humans to keep an eye on like the 9,000 contacts that we've got. You just wouldn't do it. And so that's an example of something we wanted to do, couldn't do it, but the tech has helped us. Other instances of that, it's just like going, how can we remove the clicks? And so there was a really, really great book called The Algorithm by the ex-president of Tesla. And he talked about a conversation where they, it took some stupid number of clicks to order a Tesla. There was loads of variations, loads of different options. And they wanted to get it down to the same number of clicks as it takes to order a Domino's pizza, right? That was the aspiration. How can we get it down to something like 9 clicks? And I really like this idea of reduce the clicks. How do you make it as easy as possible?
Al ElliottSo, You're doing something which marketers have been doing for a while, customer experience on a website, but you're doing it for the actual sort of job experience. Is this a new term you've got? JX, is that your new term?
Noel AndrewsMaybe JX is the thing, or HX, hiring experience, right? Because I mean, the hiring experience is atrocious for most people, whether you're candidate or hiring manager. It's a lot like the dating scene, right? Everybody's unhappy with it, but both sides are making it worse. Um, and that's something that we're pushing really hard to try and come at it from a different way.
Leanne ElliottI loved what you said there, Noel, about keeping people on the human stuff, like building connection through LinkedIn. And I, nothing drives me more crazy than, you know, the bots that come up in your comments and basically just summarise exactly what the post just said. And you're like, yeah, yeah, no, yeah, totally. So, I love that you're using it to actually, for the fun stuff and the interesting stuff and the human stuff. So, applying that kind of to the hiring process, which can be so laborious content, and candidate experience isn't always prioritized, what are you guys doing, and perhaps using AI for, in terms of fixing the problems you felt the hiring process had?
Noel AndrewsOne of the classic things is, how do we give personal feedback to candidates, right? And this is really difficult, right? One, because it's, sometimes you're not exactly sure. Sometimes it's just gut feel, right? But they've put effort into their application, especially in the later stages. And also, it's a bit uncomfortable because you're telling something, you know, someone that they did something wrong and you're being kind of personal about it, but not in a— you're trying to do it in a constructive way. But this is why most recruiters and most hiring managers don't give specific feedback because they're like, well, if I just don't say anything, it can't come back on me. So, one of the things that we are doing is we are getting AI to, you know, we are assessing it ourselves, supported by AI, but the decision is always human. But when it comes to giving feedback, particularly to a later-stage candidate, we will get AI to help us extract based on the role profile, based on the vibe of the hiring client, based on, you know, the work that the candidate did in the test. And actually, we find it's really good at articulating kind of what we're thinking, but in a way that's constructive, it's helpful, and much faster than if we kind of agonized over what to say in just the right way. So, it's helping us to actually give more personal, feedback to candidates, which is something that, you know, they all crave. They very rarely get it. And we want to help people, right? We want to— maybe they weren't right for this exact job because of this, or they did something that wasn't quite right. We want to help them so that they can, you know, so we can place them in another role. So, that's a good example of how it's really helping to almost like, yeah, articulate what we're thinking.
Leanne ElliottAnd I love that you're putting that down to, as you said, particularly the work the candidate did. I think we can sometimes enter a bit of a grey area, can't we? A dangerous area if we're going too much on On gut, but I totally understand that it can be hard to articulate exactly when it comes down to such a fine margin. So, I love that, actually using, you know, getting AI to support you in kind of looking at that data and articulating it in a way that the candidate can benefit from. Do you have any other examples of how kind of being AI literate is about knowing as much about when not to use AI as it is?
Noel AndrewsUh, we talk about AI fluent, right? Which is a little bit of an interesting term, but, you know, we're talking about, you know, we want people to have great AI skills, right? Or not even great AI skills even. They need AI skills for the right level for that role. Um, but the most important skill, like you said, is when do you not use it? So we've seen something like a 4 or 5x increase in applications per role over the last 2 years, which I would love to say that was because there's just so many more amazing people out there that are perfect for the jobs. I mean, it's not, right? It's they're using AI to apply for these roles and they're using AI to fill in the application forms, which means they're just like all of these AI-polished, like, CVs. It stops being a signal. They're useless. So, yeah, good example. Someone applied to come and work for me here at JobRack as a recruiter. And in one of the application form questions, it said how much they loved working in the fitness industry and they couldn't wait to come and work with us to apply that. And I'm like, oh, come on, like, at least do it, at least like skim it or use the AI well. So I think when we are testing candidates, it's probably a good example again, we are asking them to record Loom videos, right? So we're looking and saying, how can we see their judgment, right? We're often asking them and saying, hey, what did you last change your mind about, about AI? Whether it's changing the model you're using or what task did you take back? You know, I know a lot of people in the entrepreneur and founder space that have taken back their writing, right? They've spent a couple of years trying to get the AI to write as well as them, then found that actually this 18-step content production process was taking them longer than just doing it themselves in the first place. And so I think that we ask that a lot and we'll be like saying, hey, what have you taken back? And trying to dig in because it is, you know, if I wanted to hire AI agents, I'd go and hire AI agents. But what we're finding is certainly for our clients and I had this experience last week. I did a ton of stuff with AI, but now it needs more humans to actually go and make use of it, put it in place, test it, et cetera. So, you know, AI is amazing. We can do more than we've ever had before, but then it takes like really good judgment to choose the right things to actually use.
Leanne ElliottOn that, can I just ask, you said it's great that we can use AI to do more, and that's not something I hear as many entrepreneurs and business owners talk about as I would as I would like. It almost feels like the attitude is we can use AI to do the same amount of output, but instead of, we won't use humans, which is cheaper. Whereas I love that framing of, no, we can use AI to do even more. Is that something that's really kind of ingrained in JobRack?
Noel AndrewsOh, 100%. Absolutely 100%. Because we're looking, it's really exciting, and I've got a good friend of mine, runs a SaaS business, that he was surrounded by other SaaS business owners who were letting people go, reducing their teams. And he's like, y'all are crazy. He's like, I've got a great team. It's about 30 people in his business. And he's like, they can now do 5 to 10x more than they could before. This is the most exciting time I've ever had of running a business. And here in Jobbracket, it's the same. You know, we can, you know, I'm now developing and producing things that we could never have dreamed of before. The approach, again, you know, our ability to keep in touch with people. So, Like, I'm really, really big on like personal connection. I love sending a previously Loom video, but then I created my own tool and I go for walks down the River Thames here in West London. And I'll just be shooting these little like 1-minute videos, very, very personal, keeping in touch with people. Using AI, I've got like the tool that does all of the start, the prep stuff. So it builds me the list of who haven't I got in touch with for a little while. And then I just record my videos and it automatically then sends the video for me. It puts in a little GIF in the email of me waving at them. It titles it, it sends them, it does all the tech bits. So all I do, I focus on doing the bit that I really love, recording a nice personal video and keeping in touch. And so because of that, if I had to then record the video, go back, get the GIF, put it in an email, find their email address, or have one of my team do that, that just, again, it's gunk. It inhibits how much we could do. So I think there's tons of examples. I think we're AI is definitely helping us review, um, and, you know, yeah, review more candidates, but I'm not sure that's actually great because really that's just helping us deal with the deluge that's coming in. I'd actually much rather we had less people coming in and we only needed to focus on the ones that were, you know, potentially right. You know, candidates are using AI, we're needing to use it to help us remove the ones that just haven't even looked at the job post.
Al ElliottI want to ask you a bit more about where the boundary is, where a human has to step in for some AI output. But before we do that, you just mentioned you built a tool, which I want that tool. That is incredible. But did you, did you like, I hate the term vibe coding, but did Claude or Codex build it for you? And could the average person do that? Or do you need some kind of engineering background?
Noel AndrewsSo, yes, I did. So Claude, Claude Code is very busy in these parts. And so I've got a somewhat technical background. I did aerospace engineering at university. I spent 15 years working in like corporate tech functions, mainly in leadership roles, but a lot of business analysis, project and program management, delivering kind of software projects and programs at a pretty big scale. So I almost like, the way I think about it is I know enough to be dangerous, but I can't really read code. But I think my, the skill that helps me a lot is being able to figure out, well, what's the problem? And what do I think the solution is? And then also going through things like data security. Yeah. Privacy, scalability, a lot of the things that people aren't doing just now. So that means that I can do things that I think are pretty, are very safe for me to do. There's very little personal data involved, et cetera. Do I think the average person could do it? Yeah, 100%. Just be careful, right? Be mindful. The tools, even, where was it? It was a year ago this week that I first used Claude Code. And I look at how far it's come, it's out of this world. And so I think the big bit, it starts with having an idea and just try it, whether it's a fun personal little project, something for the business and the tool. But ideally choose things initially that don't involve anyone's personal data, don't involve anything super confidential. Build little— I'm trying to think of some of the apps that I've built for me at home. I've built one to help me journal in the morning, right? So I journal on paper notebook and pen, but I don't always remember what are my journal prompts. So I've just got it on my home screen. I can just go straight to it. I've got— spent a lot of time building out work stuff and then been like, hang on, why haven't I got like a cool portal for me that's got like my recipes in it or my, you know, my friends and when their birthdays are and where they live and all of these kinds of things that actually now is really easy to build and is really fun.
Leanne ElliottYou need that, Al. Al has it. It's actually pretty genius. In his phone with his contacts, he'll put like, say Noel, if he had put your number in his phone, he'll then put next to it the name of your partner and the name of any kids or dogs. So Al's phenomenal. When he meets someone, he's like, oh, Noel, how are you? How's little, little Adam and Janey? And, and it blows people's minds. It sounds like you need to, you can, you could do an app now, Al, to do that.
Al ElliottI'm pretty sure personal CRM has been around for a little while, but this is, but you're right. This is so cool because you could, like, I'm building a little app for, uh, which is basically replacing our Trello. And I won't go into it because it's really nerdy, but it does exactly what we want and not what we don't want. I wrote my first line of code when I was 8. So that's like, what, 42 years ago?
Leanne ElliottSeriously?
Al ElliottYeah. First line of BASIC code. And I've been, I've been coding in PHP for like 20 years. I literally, 2 weeks ago, I was like, I'm no longer writing code. I don't even read it.
Noel AndrewsYeah.
Al ElliottI, if you treat Claude, and this is a tip for anyone who wants to do this because we've both done this. My, my way of treating Claude code is it's the most intelligent toddler you've ever, you've ever met. Because if you tell it exactly, toddler's a bad example, but a child, you tell it exactly what it'll do, what to do, it'll do it. But if you just say, do this. It'll just decide itself and run amok. Have you come across that sort of idea?
Noel AndrewsYeah, a lot. And I think that, come back on your personal CRM point, a lot of these things have existed, but they've maybe not been great or not been great for you. So I think now the opportunity, because I've been mulling over personal CRM for years, like nearly 3 or 4 years, and I've just done it. And I'm really pleased that I didn't do it before because none of them would've been quite right for me and how I want to use it. I want to I want to be one of those people. I've always joked about having that, you know, a president or prime minister of a country goes into a room with people they don't know, and there's someone behind their shoulder whispering in their ear, this is Al, you last spoke on, you know, 24th of September, you know, blah, blah. I want that because my memory is not perfect, but I want to be— it's really, really important that I get to connect with someone and do that in a really genuine way. And so I want to use these tools, these systems to Create moments that then build and kind of foster that kind of connection. I used, you know, we both use a little tool called Hermes. I'm not gonna nerd out on that, but one of the fun ways that I use it is if I'm going to meet someone that I've not met before, right? I will just get it to do a little bit of research, right? So far, so normal. It goes on LinkedIn, it goes on their company website, but I'll ask it, I'll say, hey, can you find anything fun? You know, find anything personal, et cetera. You know, not getting creepy. And I was going to an event with some other recruiters, and it was a friend of a friend that was hosting it, this guy called Craig. And so Hermes went off, did its thing, found all the business stuff, and then it came back and said, oh, I've also found his SoundCloud, right? So SoundCloud, the website where people upload music and mixes, things like that. And so I was like, okay, that's cool. And so I was like, how confident are you that it's, you know, this Craig? And it's like, well, it's a pretty unusual first name surname combination, and he's in London, but Maybe just ask it. So I went on SoundCloud on the tube on my way across London, and it's cool. It's like Ibiza house mixes, exactly my kind of vibe. I'm like bobbing away on the train, loving it. So I get to the event, I meet Craig. We do the little initial few seconds recruitment business owner to recruitment business owner chat. And then I'm like, hey, look, bit weird, but are you the Craig? And, you know, full name, um, that's on SoundCloud with the cool Ibiza mixes? And he took a step back and he's like, yeah, how did you know? And it changed the conversation completely, right? And it just meant that we just went to a whole different level. It was really fun. We were chatting about the music. And so for me, you know, could I have found that? Probably not, not manual Googling. But they're the kinds of things that I'm loving, you know, using tech and tools like this for, because it just, you can then use it in fun ways to build connection or find a more fun night out or whatever it might be. And I think that for me, that's where a lot of the power is in this, not in just doing it to need less humans.
Al ElliottSo you've obviously automated a lot of gunk. You have got rid of stuff. You've told us when it goes really right. So your SoundCloud example, brilliant. Has it gone wrong for you?
Noel AndrewsWe've not had many instances because I'm hyper cautious about this, right? I do not want to be one of those people that their bot is, you know, doing AI comments on LinkedIn posts that you read them and you just instantly, you know, you know straight away. And so, I've been really, really cautious about this. I think we've had a couple of instances. We had a job seeker recently actually get in touch. Their application had been declined exactly 24 hours to the second after they applied. Now, a human had reviewed it. A human had, one of the team had looked through it, decided that they weren't right based on the requirements. Yeah. And then we'd said decline. But we don't say decline straight away because if we happen to be working that job at that time and we decline them within like 15 minutes of them applying, well, that feels terrible. We hadn't counted on the fact of someone spotting and saying, well, that was exactly 24 hours, therefore it looks like a bot. It doesn't look real, despite the fact that we're humans in it. So we've had bits like that and they complained and then we explained, et cetera. So we are very, very cautious, but I see examples of it going wrong all the time, right? There's some hilarious videos doing the rounds at the minute of people using AI interview interviewers, right? That, you know, you kind of like feed them gibberish answers from the candidate, and then surprise, surprise, it's, you know, gibberish the other way around. Um, so I think you've got to be really, really cautious. That's not to say that you can't try these things, can't use them, but just make sure it's gonna do it well. And I think for me, it's about making the conscious decision. What's the experience that I want someone to have when interacting with me or my team or JobRack and us as a business? You know, if you are a pilot high, sell it cheap kind of business, maybe you don't actually care about, you know, thrilling everybody, right? One of my favorite books is The Power of Moments by Chip and Dan Heath, and it's all about giving a really, really amazing experience. So that's super, super important for me. So I have a very thin skin when it comes to upsetting people, things like that. You know, there's plenty of people online that can just go out there to be antagonistic. It's just, that's just not my jam. So, I think I'm hyper-cautious about it. So we haven't really had any, um, or any, or too many issues about that, but probably because I'm holding back on, you know, we could probably be doing a lot more, but that experience is so important for me.
Al ElliottSo that holding back is probably your judgment call, but talk a little bit more about the actual guardrails that are available within these AI agents, Hermes, Codex, Claude. You can, you can actually, you can get them to read an email and draft an email, but never send. Is that right?
Noel AndrewsIn theory, in theory, right? You know, so yes. So if you actually lock it down so it cannot send based on permissions levels, then great, that should stop it sending. But a lot of the tools that we're connecting Hermes and Claude, et cetera, to don't actually have granular permissions. So in order for it to be useful, it's got to have a certain level of access. And then you say, right, I don't want you to send. But a lot of people, and I've definitely had this experience where it does something that I don't want it to do. And then afterwards, it's again, it's like a toddler. It's like, I'm sorry. Right. And it's kind of like, well, okay. And I haven't had any really, really horrible consequences. But I do know people that it's been, you know, deleting their home drive, right? All of this kind of like unintended stuff. So what is really interesting, you see a lot written over the years about people being really kind of very protective around Meta and companies like that, around what data they've got. Right. A new AI tool gets announced, like Instinct is one of the latest ones, and people are like, ooh, sign me up, that sounds great. And then you read the terms of service and you're like, oh, you can commit me to binding agreements with any other provider forever? Like, hang on a minute, let— whoa, a little bit of, again, judgment. But at the same time, it's like, you know, we help people hire all kinds of different roles. And one of the big things we say is if you want them to be able to perform and be a really trusted part of your team, You've got to give them access to stuff. You have to trust them. But you don't give them keys to the bank account on day one, right? It's a gradual process. So yes, there's guardrails. I think first of all is talking to other people about it, looking at what they can really access, and not being afraid to hold back a little bit and go a little bit slowly. We don't necessarily need to be at the absolute bleeding edge of this stuff. Those of us like the 3 of us, we're already in the 0.5%, right? Yeah. Um, even if I do have these moments where I feel like a bit of a boomer that I'm not doing enough, and then I'm like, hang on a minute, I'm, you know, perfectly far enough ahead in this bubble without wanting to be at that absolute hanging on for dear life going, what's going to happen?
Al ElliottDo you know what? We covered something a few weeks ago, um, a new word called token anxiety, and it was the anxiety of, of your, your weekly limit coming up and you're going, I've only used 40% of my week, what can I get it to do? And I've done that. I spent— I think I stayed up Uh, till about 3 o'clock one Sunday morning because Claude was about to reset and I just got like multiple agents to do stuff. It was all rubbish because I just basically threw stuff at the wall.
Noel AndrewsExactly. We're gonna have so many unfinished projects, right? And this is it. And in founder circles and, you know, especially in founder and entrepreneur circles, people are building so much stuff, right? But there's 2 things that, you know, I look at and I go, one, are they solving the real bottleneck in their business, right? Because it, it's like the shiniest object we've ever seen, right? It's a wonderful distraction. It feels productive. Oh, look at what I've reduced. But is it actually solving the bottleneck that's stopping you growing? And then all of these new tools that are getting built, is anyone actually earning any money? Right? Because fundamentally, you can build a tool, great. But actually, if no one wants it, or you don't market it, etc., is it actually solving any kind of problem? Any problem? Or are you having fun with it? So my personal portal stuff, I'm loving having it, right? I've retired a bunch of apps I didn't really like, that weren't quite right for me. So it's fun. And but I think it's, there's a lot of, like you said, A lot of tokens getting burnt. I mean, thank you to all those VCs that are funding us, that we really appreciate you. You know, but at some point that kind of comes to an end and then maybe people start going, oh, hang on a minute, where's the actual value? Have I lost sight of the thing that's actually going to, you know, help me in my role, help me in the business?
Al ElliottQuick announcement for all listeners. Yeah, I've got a new toy on my little deck thing. So I can make my voice change. Anyway, sorry.
Leanne ElliottI love it. Do it again.
D — REVIEWHello, Leanne.
Leanne ElliottDo another one. Hello. But we didn't interrupt your podcast listening for, uh, for this. We actually interrupted it to tell you about one of our new favorite podcasts. It's called Success Story. It is hosted by Scott D. Clary, and it is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Success Story features question and answer sessions and conversations on sales, marketing, business startups, and entrepreneurship.
Al ElliottOh, and if you like this podcast, then I think you'll love Scott's episode back in December, where the infamous Seth Godin talks about empowering employees. So go listen to Success Stories wherever you get your podcasts.
Leanne ElliottI want to bring it back to hiring because that is, is your world. And you mentioned about the, the AI interviewers I've seen some clips on that as well, and they are pretty funny. I've got into like a, like a good 10-minute conversation with somebody on LinkedIn that the last 2 minutes I'm like, you're not real, are you? I'm like, say potato. They couldn't. I'm wondering if there's any other examples you've seen where you're just like, AI hiring process recruitment, you've just gone too far.
Noel AndrewsWe've, we have seen our first person using a video avatar software. So, it wasn't their face on the video. Right? This is going to happen more and more. Like, I don't know if you've played with ElevenLabs or any of these tools that can clone your voice. It is scary, right? Yeah, what it means from a like scam perspective, honestly, it's really scary. Um, so we've seen our first person not using, um, you know, it wasn't them. And we've also seen the first people using these like interview prompting tools, right? So there's one called Clue.ly. Um, famously, the guy that created it was using it to get a job in big tech. And what happens is that, you know, let's say you're interviewing me, as you ask me a question, it is on screen prompting me with the absolute model answer to those questions. And it's quick. And the only reason we noticed is because there was like a, like a half-second delay in him answering. And we're like, and he was like, oh, well, my internet connection is not great. And then when we looked back at the recording, the guy had glasses, we could see the text scrolling in his glasses. And then we started figuring out, oh, that's what had gone on. So again, like, it's really tricky. I understand why people do it because, you know, on both sides, it's really tricky. So I think that's another way. I would love it if we could just, you know, meet all of our candidates face to face, but we're hiring remotely. So that's really hard. I think we will end up doing our own interviewing software for our real-time interviews that kind of lock their computer a bit, right? So that they're not on other browser windows, right? So that it's just a a little bit of a walled garden, so that we kind of frankly get their focus, get their attention, and that we can confirm that that is the case. And obviously on our side as well, because there's nothing worse than when you're on a call with someone and they're not concentrating. So they're the kinds of things. So I think we're going to see more and more of this. And it just becomes a race to keep ahead of the things that people are trying to commit fraud do. And remembering it at the end of it, it's about the human side. How do we get to know them? So, yeah, we ask them to tell us a story about their mum or their dad, things like that. AI's generally not going to do well at that kind of stuff.
Leanne ElliottSmart. That's really smart to pull out questions like that. Do you think as well there's an opportunity here for, you were saying, you know, it's hard for candidates to stand out if every application is shiny. Is this the place to really stand out in terms of your ability to communicate, to be interviewed, to engage? Um, in those types of conversations, think critically. Does it actually give, for those candidates who, who put in the effort to that side of self-development, do you think it'll actually make them stronger candidates in the market?
Noel AndrewsSo, this is my, one of my favorite, like, pet subjects, this one. So, I used to be an interview coach many years ago. One of my first businesses that I started was helping candidates. And it came after a day, I was still in the corporate world. I did 10 interviews in a day. And they were all a bit rubbish, but they were all really great people who on paper had incredible experience, but none of them put it across well. And I was driving home and I'm just like, well, what was going on? And I was like, oh, well, no one's taught how to interview. And why are we using interviews as a means of verifying if they're going to be good at being a software developer, for instance, right? And it's a bit nuts, right? Because my, you know, a salesperson is generally very, very good at interviewing, right? Because that's their job is to put themselves across. So for people that have put the effort into personal development, right? And have been bettering themselves, et cetera, and that's something that they enjoy, and maybe they're a bit more outgoing, then yes, they've definitely, as always, they've had a bit of a natural advantage. But they're not necessarily the right ones for the job, right? And so, more and more as recruiters, as hiring managers, the big thing is reminding ourselves, what is it we need? I don't need to want to be best friends with this person, right? I need to want to have a coffee with them for sure. But ultimately, it's like coming back to like, read the job post before every interview. Yeah. To remind yourself what you're actually looking for, not what the combination of the last 8 interviews that you've done have stacked on top of each other, on top of each other, until basically you're looking for the unicorn that you're never going to find. So I think it is harder and harder for people to put themselves across. Like, when everything is polished, it means that the resume or a CV is no longer a useful signal at all. So then we have to go, well, what What's a real reflection? And for me, almost all of that comes down to real conversations and test tasks, right? Test tasks that can't be done by AI. Like, show us what you can actually do.
Leanne ElliottHiring based on job analysis. You're talking my love language, Noel. Seriously.
Noel AndrewsWe're in.
Leanne ElliottSame page. Same page.
Al ElliottSo, you've just used the example of where you saw in someone's glasses the text popping up, which is a rookie error. But having glasses and studio lights, I've learned how to make sure that they don't They don't reflect. But I'm curious, does that mean then that if you found out someone was using AI to help them with an interview, then for you, that would be a no-no?
Noel AndrewsSo it was, but it's not now. Like, it's changing. So where are we? 2 and a bit years ago, maybe 2 and a half years ago, as part of our testing, we had a big bold line that says, please do not use AI in your application. We want to see what you can really do. Well, that's changed now. Of course, we want them to use AI in their test task that we're doing, but we want to see which bits are AI and which bits are them. So more and more, there'll be a work product, something that they're delivering, and we will get them to record a Loom video explaining and taking us through it. And you know, within about 12 seconds, right? So we're constantly adapting our rubrics and how we're scoring people, because yeah, it would be unfair in a sense to penalize them. You know, just for using those software tools. However, what we're doing more and more is using questions that actually those tools won't help them with, right? And digging into specifics. So if you were like, you know, tell me about a time, or how would you handle a situation with a boss that gives you critical feedback, right? It's hypothetical. The AI can give you a great answer for that. Tell me about a time, you know, when you— I'm going to look at your resume and you're like, oh, I used to work at Nike. Okay, cool. When you were at Nike, when did you receive some critical feedback? Right? Those kind of instances gets a lot harder for the AI to prompt. And then you're like, oh, what was your boss's name? Oh, it was Leanne. Okay, well, you know, what was her style when she told you that? You know, how did you go kind of feedback? So we all have to be smarter basically and adapt our style to deal with the, you know, the changing sport and help. And also recognize that what it means is that if a candidate— I kind of want to see a candidate using these tools because then I'm like, whoa, well, if they're going to put that much effort into the hiring process, What are they going to do when they come and work for me? I'm excited, right? Again, it's the 5x output, the 10x output with them as the kind of the conductor orchestrating the stuff that's getting done. And that's what a lot of roles are going to become, right? Much less about the doing, more about the conducting.
Al ElliottI think it was Bill Gates who said years ago, I want someone who's intelligent and lazy because they will find a shortcut to get the work done.
Noel Andrews100%.
Al ElliottThere's something you said, Noel, there. You said, I think your words were, and we know within about 12 seconds that they're using AI. How, tell the listeners, how did you know?
Noel AndrewsSo I think it's if you ask someone to explain something that they don't understand, right? So you ask me to explain, you know, anything about hiring, right? I know it pretty deeply, been in it a really long time, right? I can, I'm gonna talk with some real confidence. I'm gonna be able to go to a real depth. Whereas if you asked me to explain how does some of the software that I've created work, like I could have the code on the screen, I'm going to be, well, I'm going to be stuttering. It's just very different when you've got someone. So let's say you've got an SEO specialist role, right? And you've asked them as part of the test to do an audit of your site and come up with recommendations. Then they do a Loom video talking through it. You can see really clearly if they're reading from a script, right? Or if they are— Yeah. You know, kind of like you just get that sense of it versus someone that's just like, oh yeah, well, I get this completely. So first of all, I went and looked at the on-page, this is what's going on, I use this tool and that tool. The pace is generally pretty different. Even when people are, you know, English isn't their first language, you can just kind of tell when someone really gets what they're talking about, especially when you're hiring at like your proper specialist level rather than kind of junior level.
Al ElliottSo have I got this right? So imagine that I was interviewing for one of the positions with JobRack, um, and you're pretty impressed with what I, what I'm doing and how I've done things. Should I then at that point go say something like, well, look, I can show you, because I wrote a little prompt and some skills and whatever on Claude to, to get this actual job done. I'll walk you through. I don't know what happens behind the scenes. I don't know how Claude Code works, but I, this is how I got the work done. Would that impress you or not?
Noel Andrews100%. That's what I want to see, right? Like, just show me the cool things you've done. How have you pushed it forwards? How have you not just kind of done the job, but how are you proactive? So, a fun question that we are using a lot at the moment to kind of look at where someone's at in terms of AI is, how have you used AI to help you in this application? And this gets fun real quick because you then start, it's almost like saying, hey, so where are the lies on your CV? Right? That used to be the classic question because we know they're there. 85% of CVs and resumes included something that wasn't accurate. And this is years ago, right? So you just ask someone, which is it? And here with the AI, you start to see the 2023, 2024 answer to this is, will I use ChatGPT to optimize my CV? Whereas the answer today might be something, someone that's really ahead of things might say, well, yeah, I did a little bit of CV optimization, but then what I went and did, I got Claude Code and Codex to do a whole bunch of research on the business, on the leadership team, Um, it then used NotebookLM to create me a podcast, and I've been listening to it for the last few days in the gym, really getting a feeling for who you guys are, the kind of content you put out. Um, and then I, you know, created my own little flashcard app to, you know, kind of drill and use ChatGPT live voice to practice the interview. And even that's not that complicated, right? That's just bringing together various different tools. Someone tells me that's how they prepared for a job, I'm like, great, you want this job. But that's an exceptional level. I'm not expecting that many people to do that, but that'll become kind of normal.
Al ElliottLet's have a real quick question there. I think there's a lot of leaders will be going, okay, they've done that. That's very cool. They really want the job. But then are they just gonna come to my work and do the work in 2 hours and then spend the other 38 hours of the week just doing nothing? Or—
Noel AndrewsWell, hopefully not, because you are a really inspiring leader and you are gonna be inspiring them to then identify what else they can do that furthers their own personal growth objectives, the growth objectives of your department or your business, how do you push them forward? So it is, I've got a really good friend that consults and helps people through the people side of AI transformation, right? So everyone's racing at AI transformations. No one's really sure how do we handle the people, whether it's the fact that they've got this real fear of losing their jobs to AI, or the fact they can now do 40 hours of work in 2 hours. What do we do with the other 38? So now the leaders in the room have got to be prepared for that. In terms of having bigger things to go after. I think we're kind of similar age, right? If you think about the homework we had at school versus the homework that is there today, it's going to be night and day different, the detail, because we had to actually go and get books, right? I remember Encarta 95 on a CD-ROM and these tiny little postage stamp videos that we could watch. My stepsons and people at school today could do that in a microsecond, right? It wouldn't even be a thing. So again, I think leaders in businesses now have got to be like, right, well, let's talk in outcomes rather than tasks and go, what does 10x look like? I'm often thinking like, you know, what are all the projects or the ideas that I've had over the years that have then just gone, well, I can't do that because I don't have an entire team of software developers or an entire team of marketing professionals? Well, now I've got an amazing marketing specialist and AI. It's kind of like having a team of marketing specialists. So that, I think it is a challenge for leaders and leadership teams of businesses to actually stay ahead of these hungry people that are AI skilled that want to do more. Because if you let 'em get bored, that is the worst thing for any person in a business. They get bored, they get disengaged, they quiet quit, or they quit. That's the thing. So we've gotta stay ahead and we've gotta come up with bigger challenges. And that's exciting. That, for the right people, that's really exciting.
Leanne ElliottNo, it is exciting. And what brings me so much joy as a psychologist is the more people I speak to about AI and how they're using it in a, in a really effective and ethical and, and progressive way, is it's not replacing humans, it's leveling humans up. I'm not going to be horrified if my member of staff does 40 hours of, of work in 2. I'm going to get excited about what else they They can do. I'm not gonna get concerned about my, you know, employees, how they're using AI, as long as it's measuring by outcomes. So, I think the whole irony of AI is we might actually finally get the people side of our businesses right. And I also know there's gonna be so many people listening now who are also so excited and like, Noel, I'm in, you converted me, how do I do this? So, I'm wondering if there's If there's advice you could give to somebody in terms of how they'd be able to decide task by task or job by job, what goes to AI and what should stay with a human in their business?
Noel AndrewsI think you've gotta get the reps in of experimenting and playing, right, in a safe way, right? So, I think for, you know, whatever stage of your career that someone's at, but if they're in the earlier stages, you know, it's a tricky market. Right now for like entry-level roles, things like that. But at the same time, for someone with agency, someone that's gonna spend some time and effort creating some stuff and pretending like they're already in the job, right? Which they can now do. And you can create incredible output. So I think you've gotta get the reps in, right? And then critically look at it. Look at it and go, well, is that good? How would I view that? And again, you can get the AI to critique it through the eyes of, you know, the buyer of that service or product or whatever it might be. A lot of my time when I'm doing things with AI is spent getting it to do critiques and then Codex critique what Claude's done and vice versa. And so I think that's the opportunity for people, the ones that are hungry, the ones that do want to progress. I think they can learn faster than ever before. I think they can experiment, they can produce. Like if you think about in kind of like startup world, right? Or even in an interview kind of scenario, people would go And maybe they'd take some printouts, right, of work that they'd done before. Can I see your portfolio? Maybe they'd take, you know, a laptop and spin it around and show some slides of what they've done before. Well, now they can show up and say, well, look, here's what I've prepared of, you know, what I think I'd do in the first 30 days. I've already done it, right? I've created the app that I would use to do X, Y, and Z, or I've created the marketing strategy. It's not gonna be 100% right because I'm not in the business yet. I don't know all the nuances, but I've done a lot of research. I think here's some opportunities, here's some weaknesses. Oh, and here's some things you're doing really well. So people that want to put the effort in, I think, can really stand out more than ever before. The tricky bit for both sides is getting through the maze to get the opportunity to be in front of the human. And so that's where I'm like, you know, just like try and wow people, right? You know, don't just be one of the other thousands of people that's putting through a a vanilla application with a ChatGPT optimized resume, right? That's not the way.
Al ElliottJust check and see if they've got a SoundCloud, if the recruiter's got a SoundCloud first, is that what you're saying?
Noel AndrewsExactly. Just find a personal connection that shows that, you know, the classic question was always like, you know, what do you know about this company? Like, what research have you done? I've always hated that question. But what is interesting now is so many people are applying for jobs that they've not done any research on the company. They may not even know who the company's for because they're just using their AI to do the job application. So, You're going to potentially spend a lot of time in this job and with this company. You want to really want it. And so, if that is the case, then find something that you're excited about and communicate that and show why you're excited to work for them.
Leanne ElliottI love the experimentation and play, like you said, during the reps, because I think a lot of people would get excited about engaging in that type of process and giving the space to have that level of creativity and innovation. I'm also then wondering then if, is that the 2 kind of starting points for somebody who wants to start using AI to automate more within their business? One, maybe getting a number of employees or maybe doing like those hackathon days. Is that what they're called? I'm out of my depth now. Is that what they're called? No, 100%. Yeah. Okay, cool. Hackathon days where you might do that. Is it kind of like one end is creativity and the other is, is going back right to the beginning when we started chatting is about eliminating the gunk?
Noel AndrewsThere's a series of different questions that I'll use to try and get my team, for instance, into the right headspace. There's a load of stuff written and some great stuff around neuroscience of play and innovation, right? You can't take a team of people that's just finished 3 back-to-back meetings and squeeze in a half hour where we're going to be innovative, right? In this half hour between meetings, you just can't do it. You've got to reset a little bit and go, right, we actually did some stretching. on our team call the other day, let's just forget about what we've been doing. Let's stretch for 5 minutes. Right now, let's think about whatever we were going through. I will ask questions to try and get at that, the gunk busting. So I will say things like, if you could get rid of any task that you need to do today, what would you automate? And that can work, but that relies on someone's ability to imagine that can be automated. So then I might say to them, well, okay, imagine I gave you an assistant. a real human assistant next to you who loved dull, boring work, right? They love the dull stuff, right? What would you give them, right? You can give them anything you want. You can give them everything if you want. What would you give them and what would you keep? So, these are the kinds of questions that we use to try and elicit and extract the problems. So, this is one of the unusual areas where I don't need solutions from my team, right? I don't need them to be coders. I don't need them to be AI experts. I need to just be able to go, I think this could be better. I'd like to not do it. Great. Me and some of the other team members will figure out how to automate it or what we can do. So I think it's asking the same question in different ways to try and figure out, you know, where is their zone of genius? What would it look like if we did do it differently? What would an amazing experience be? What would a wonderful workday look like? And it's probably not using a lot of the systems and mountains of email and all the rest of it that a lot of people currently deal with. Yeah.
Al ElliottI am genuinely, I've got butterflies in my stomach just thinking about all this stuff. Like, and I live and breathe this and you've just given me 100 different ideas. I really hope that someone's listening to this and going, aha, so AI might be coming for some people's jobs, but actually I can really harness this, no pun intended, to get my, to make my work better. Let's talk tactics. Are you a Claude guy? Are you a GPT guy? Yeah. Are you Hermes? Are you GroqBot? Are you what? What are you using and why?
Noel AndrewsYeah, spending most of my time in Claude because Claude code, I've got comfortable with it. It works well enough for me. I don't bounce between lots of different models. I'm sure there's some optimizations available if I did, but at the end, like we talked about, like, what's the thing I'm trying to solve? Do I need to be at the latest greatest model or do I just actually need to go after the bottlenecks and the things that are really gonna make the difference? So I'm Claude. We're Claude for our team. We have the team plan with connectors, which is significantly more expensive than paying for even personal accounts. But the benefits are really, really big. We're all using the same interface. We can talk about things, we can share things really easily. So we're Claude. We do use ChatGPT. I use Codex a lot to actually critique what Claude's done and then vice versa and just keep them in a loop for a little while. And then I'm Hermes as my own personal agent. And then also we're starting to build out agents within the business, just various little, little kind of use cases, basically trying to shift much more to it doing things rather than, you know, moving away from where we were as like it was a chat agent, much more to the doing.
Al ElliottSo there's an important distinction. I think you've just said there, there's Claude and ChatGPT are the 2 that are the most famous in terms of chat. And then you talked about agents and you mentioned Hermes. There's also GrokBot. There's lots of OpenCLAW. What is the main difference? What do you use an agent for and what do you use ChatGPT or Claude for?
Noel AndrewsSo it is confusing because ChatGPT and Claude can also have agents within them. There's a lot of different definitions of agents, and I'm— but the way that I think about it is it's going to figure out what to do, right? So I can say, I'm trying to think of a good example. A good example is that research I did on that chap Craig, right? I just went to Hermes and I said, I'm going for a meeting with Craig. Here's his kind of LinkedIn, go do some research. I didn't tell it which websites to go and look at. I didn't tell it to go and look at SoundCloud. It just thought to itself, how can I do a really great job of giving Noel what he's after? Right? It figured it out. So that for me is agentic. And then more and more, it's moving to things happening automatically. So instead of it being me prompting Hermes to go and do it, it would be You know, 6 AM every day, Hermes looks at my calendar, looks at the people I'm gonna be meeting with that day, goes off and proactively researches and does things and then comes back. And again, that's quite a simple example. So really it's when it's not prescribed instructions and it's going out and figuring out, well, how shall I do this task?
Al ElliottI love that distinction. And something which, when I started getting into this, I realized you could do SOPs for agents.
Leanne ElliottI'm sorry, I'm going to need translation on that for anyone listening with my level of technology.
Al ElliottOh man, is it standard operating procedure? Is that it?
Leanne ElliottOh, okay. Yeah.
Noel AndrewsNot a tech term.
Al ElliottI'm worried that— but you can give them an SOP to do, but then what you've just said there is that if you nail it down too tightly, the agent isn't creative enough to go out. So where's the balance on there?
Noel AndrewsYeah, I mean, I'm more and more, I'm trying to think in terms of outcomes. So If you want to have junior people in your team that need to be given a prescriptive SOP and task by task, then again, if you're a micromanager, then maybe that is a happy life. It's definitely not for me, right? I want to have people that I can just, we can be really clear on a shared outcome. Where are we trying to go? How can we think bigger? And then go figure it out, whether that's agents or humans. So that's how I think about that, like being pretty broad with it. With the AI, that's an experiment in itself, right? Sometimes you'll do it, Be broad, it'll come back and it won't have done it well. Right, okay, well, I need to be a bit narrower or a bit clearer. We are generally not great at communicating clearly, right? And so that whether, I think we're actually, ironically, we might get better at managing humans because of our interactions with AI, because AI needs us to be, and certainly did for the last few years, we've had to be really, really clear. Act as this, do this, get me this. So hopefully that'll actually help managers to communicate more clearly to their team. One of my team, we have a joke where when they send me something to review, I have said to them, I've said, you need to tell me what mode you want me in, right? Do you want me pedantic, Noel? This is final version, dot the i, cross the t, go into like super, super detail, or is this just a quick glance and a skim over and give me a thumbs up? And so she'll message me and she'll be like, I want you to be in Nable 5.1 or Naiku. Right? And, and so it's just a joke on my initial and stuff, but it, it does help a lot. It's like, what mode do you want me in here?
Al ElliottYou've just nailed this. I think that, that this is gonna help managers be better managers because when you realize you are instructing an agent to do something and you haven't given enough context, you do get this garbage in, garbage out stuff, which I think this is— I honestly, I, I think I am so excited. I, I could talk to you for hours and hours, but we don't have hours. Lee, you're gonna have to talk me down off a cliff now. I'm gonna go and do all kinds of things. Um, no, can we give our listeners like a quick win? Now we can't really talk about specifics. We don't know what business they've got, but if they're going, if they're as excited about me as I am about this, what should they go and do now and try to see whether they can automate it?
Noel AndrewsI would actually get notebook, pen and paper out. And I would just keep a little list of what are the things that you've done in your day that you didn't enjoy, right? And then talk to ChatGPT, Claude, insert your favorite AI here. Just talk to it about your day. ChatGPT voice mode, actually, if I was gonna give one tactical tip, ChatGPT live voice mode is amazing. And just chat to it like you were chatting to me and you, Al, as your confidant in AI and be like, hey, I've got these tasks. I don't really like them. What could I do with them? And help it kind of come up with a little bit of a vision for how you could automate something. Then it can tell you exactly how to do it, stores it all in text in the background. But I think it starts there. It starts like pen and paper or ChatGPT live voice mode is brilliant for this. Just chat to it about frustrations, things you like, things you don't like. What can I automate here? What's my first step? And just have a conversation. That's the single best way, I think.
Al ElliottI love this. I've been geeking out over Guy called Matt Pocock. I'm sure you know who he is. Um, uh, British guy, great guy on YouTube. He's got a fantastic skill. I'm saying this for listeners, not for you, Noel. I know you know this, uh, called Grill Me. Um, which essentially the, the, it'll turn into an interviewer. Uh, ChatGPT will turn into an interviewer, Claude is an interviewer, and it'll get that out of you, extract that out of you. And I think this is gonna be— I really want listeners to go out and do something, even if you don't put it into production, do something so you can just see the power. Of how it can release you from this, this gunk. Uh, Noel, any, any closing thoughts? Lee, anything we've not covered that we want to, that we want Noel to talk about?
Leanne ElliottI'd love to just ask you briefly about, about your business and just from a very kind of, I guess, personally interested point of view, because we do live in, in the Balkans. Why focusing on, on Central and Eastern Europe?
Noel AndrewsJobRat was born way back in 2015. Um, some friends of mine were hiring software developers for their businesses. And they started talking about it in a founder community that we're all in. And then people were like, oh, well, that sounds amazing. Like what, you can hire really great people for like half the cost of the UK or the US? And they're like, yeah. And then people started asking them, you know, how to do it, et cetera. And JobRack was actually born off the back of that initially as a job board. And then I jumped in and bought it. The reason why those regions, it's like the sweet spot of remote hiring, right? My caveat is always there are great people in every country in the world. Some regions just have a stronger pool of people with this combination of traits, particularly around hard work ethic, hunger, determination, great technical education, great English level, which is super important, and good overlap of time zone between US, UK, which is our main focus area. So, I think it's all of those combinations of things that mean that you can get really incredible team members that also, like, the communication style, particularly in the Balkans, is really strong. It's a very direct communication style. So, rather than some hierarchical cultures where they don't challenge the boss, or it's not the done thing, it's a little bit different in the Balkans, which is great. It's so refreshing once you're used to
Al Elliottit. Just a quick aside, we were in Sarajevo a couple of years ago, Um, in a wine bar, and the guy was probably mid-20s, was serving us in this wine bar. We've got to learn a bit more about him. And he's— and he, uh, he trained as an anaesthetist. I can't even say the word anaesthetic person.
Leanne ElliottUm, anaesthesiologist.
Al ElliottI can't say that word.
Noel AndrewsHe trained as that.
Leanne ElliottThere we go.
Al ElliottAnd I think what JobRack is so good at is that that opportunity wasn't available in Sarajevo to work. I mean, that's a bad example, but the opportunities aren't necessarily available in some of these countries. And what you're doing is broadening it and allowing them to do something they've trained to do.
Noel AndrewsYeah, 100%. And the level of expertise is phenomenal, right? You know, we've just placed a media buyer with a really, really significant US company. They're going to be running $1 million a month in Google Ad spend, right? And they've already been working for businesses doing similar levels. And they are, I would say they are better than anyone we could find locally here in London or in the US. And they're half the price. And so what that enables for businesses in terms of their growth, again, it's a bit like the AI thing. Well, you can have 2 people, right? And then they can be doing the output and the contribution of 5 other people. And so it's, it's really exciting. So it's not about less people. It's just about, you know, more getting done and more growth all around.
Al ElliottThat was Noel Andrews from JobRack. And I came away from that wanting to go and build about 40,000 different things.
Leanne ElliottThe big idea is simple. AI isn't replacing people at JobRack. It's leveling them up. It handles the boring bits and the humans do the bits that matter. Things like the conversations, the judgment, the connection.
Al ElliottBut Noel's also careful. A human makes every hiring decision, and Noel holds back on anything that could make someone feel like they're talking And he trusts AI the way you might trust a brand new hire, gradually and carefully.
Leanne ElliottSo here's your homework, and it's not hard. Get a notebook. For one day, write down every task that you didn't enjoy. Then open ChatGPT Voice Mode or Claude and just talk it through. Here's what I hate doing. What could you do for me?
Al ElliottOr use Noel's question. If you had an assistant who loved the boring work that you hate, what would you ask them to do? What would you give them and what would you keep?
Leanne ElliottYou don't need to be a coder. You don't need to build anything perfect. Just try one thing and see what happens.
Al ElliottYou can find Noel on LinkedIn. Search for Noel Andrews JobRack or go to jobrack.eu. The links are in the show notes, of course.
Leanne ElliottThis is Truth, Lies and Work. Go and bust some gunk and we will see you next week.
Al ElliottBye.