Ep09: What is Quiet Quitting?

What the hell is Quiet Qutting?

• What is Quiet Quitting exactly?
• How do we know if it’s happening in our organisation?
• How do we, as managers and leaders, tackle it?
• What do we need to do to prevent it in the future?

Let’s get stuck in.

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The Transcript

⚠️ NOTE: This is an automated transcript, so it might not always be 100% accurate!

Leanne Elliott
So its not calling it in necessarily just a case of just limiting your efforts to what you’re contracted to do.

Hello, and welcome to Episode Nine of the truth lies and workplace culture podcast. We’re here to help you as business leaders, build teams that care as much about your business as you do. My name is Liam.

Al Elliott
Oh, I’m sorry, mouthful of water! My name is Al.

Leanne Elliott
Welcome back.

Al Elliott
So what are we? What’s the format of the podcast?

Leanne Elliott
Leah, you tell me Al.

Al Elliott
So basically, the answer business psychologist has got loads of letters after a name like she spent 1520 years in research and also working in industry. I am not a business psychologist. I’m not an expert. But I’m here to ask the questions that you as a business leader, as an owner, as a manager might have to ensure that we give you the best information from the one of the best people to talk about it, which is my colleague here, Leanne. Hello. So what are we talking about today, Leanne,

Leanne Elliott
or today? I don’t know about you. But everywhere I seem to look at the moment whether it’d be on my LinkedIn or my newsfeed, quiet quitting seems to be the people and culture phrase of the moment.

Al Elliott
I’ve seen it a lot as well. And I don’t know whether it’s because because I vote in one article, then Google shows me more in my feed. I don’t know. But yeah, I’ve just noticed, it seems to be something that just over the last month, just suddenly, boom, everyone’s talking about remote work before now they’re talking about quiet quitting. So what is quiet quitting?

Leanne Elliott
So quiet? Quitting is a term I’ve not come across before until I’ve heard it. It’s something that from what I understand has been been coined by, by employees who are expressing how they feel about their work on social media. And when I started reading about quiet quitting, and what it is, my understanding is, it’s a conscious decision to invest less energy and work. So not not calling it in necessarily just a case of just limiting your efforts to what you’re contracted to do. So yeah, just doing nothing more, nothing less what they are employed to do. This might sound familiar to you, it certainly did to me, what is basically being described that is disengagement or the, you know, the the concept of employee engagement, when employees are disengaged, that is, what happens there. They’re not going the extra mile, they’re not going above and beyond. They’re just doing what it is they’re paid to do. And then they’re going home. And I think what a couple of things struck me about this kind of the rise in the term and how much media attention it’s getting I, on one hand, I guess I’m cool with it, because it’s like, well, you know, at least now we’ve got a vocabulary of people using for employee engagement. If that increases understanding, then fantastic. But let’s not pretend that this is new. Okay, this has been around for decades. I mean, as a term, employee engagement, quiet quitting, it’s the same thing. It was founded in the 1990s. But we can go back further than that, in terms of actually understanding how behave and efficiency at work works, we can go right back to the early 1900s. We can even then go to the 1920s horn, Thorne studies, which you might have heard of, which is a kind of the first battery of of research papers that really found that if you pay attention to workers, if you listen to their needs, and if you help them to be happy with their work, and their employer, then they’re going to be more productive and contented. This is 1920s were 100 years on, and we’re still talking about the same thing. So with that, can we please not start? Kind of this whole scapegoating of it’s the millennials, it’s the Gen Zed. It’s these the people that are, you know, kind of changing work in a way that isn’t sustainable. It’s like, well, actually, they’re changing work in a way that is sustainable. Because finally there is either this quiet protest of quiet quitting, which is now being vocalised. It’s happened for years. But it’s now being vocalised. And it is a problem. I mean, we know already three out of five people are disengaged, or three out of five people have been quietly quitting for years. And that cost us about 340 billion pounds every year, which is why the government invested a huge amount of money. And then McLaws report in 2008, which we’ve already talked about unemployed engagement episodes. So let’s not pretend this is new, but let’s rejoice that we have a new word for it. That seems to be a friendly vocabulary that people want to want to use to talk about employee engagement.

Al Elliott
And it’s alliterative which tickles my marketing. Quiet critic. So I mean, the boomers let’s not label too much, but I’m tongue in cheek when I say the boomers are saying that Gen. Zed ‘s are quite quitting but actually, I know plenty of people who will be classed as boomers who spent the last five to eight years of their of their job, just phoning it in just coasting. Throw because they’re on the way to retirement. And so I mean, it’s not something that’s and we I’m sure we’ve all had jobs where we just do the bare minimum and go home, and I’m not looking forward to it, oh, well, it’ll soon be over, etcetera, etcetera. So, you say it’s nothing brand new, is it?

Leanne Elliott
It’s really not brand new. And I think the thing is, well, is that, you know, we, we look at kind of, I think what’s interesting is, is the arguments that are coming up in in the media, and I’d be interested know, your thoughts, Albert, I read a lot, the backlash kind of being about people kind of like all this, the hustle culture is being lost, and it’s gonna be bad for their careers. And, you know, unless you worked a point of burnout, why even bother? And it’s like, really?

Al Elliott
Well, I was reading something about how millennials, well, not necessarily, but Gen Zed are now they are rebelling against the stuff that their parents did. So for example, drinking is way down like Gen Zed, drinking levels, minuscule, but but smoking, smoking weed is way up. Whereas their parents, which I suppose be yours, and my generation, we spent the 90s drinking, but we never wrote, but not many of us smoked. It wasn’t really that kind of

Leanne Elliott
thing. It’s more of a hippie era.

Al Elliott
So it’s more so is it not just that we are always rebelling against our parents and doing the opposite of them. And our parents come from the hustle generation that Gary V’s of the world who 30 years ago, 25 years ago was saying you have to work 24 hours a day, seven days a week to achieve your dreams. Otherwise, you’ve wasted your life, which of course, is an extreme way in one way, which I started to start to, to subscribe to and then burned out very early on. And now I’m kind of anti hustle. I don’t really like that. But I suppose that the Gen Zed are now rebelling against the millennials, and the people like me gen one, Gen X. And Gen X. Gen X

Leanne Elliott
is millennial Gen Y

Al Elliott
and Gen Y. Who did subscribe to that.

Leanne Elliott
And I think that’s the thing is, it’s kind of you know, why are people choosing to quiet quit and I think it’s always been around this is this is disengagement. It’s always been around. But in terms of why there might be a bit of a wave at the moment on perhaps it’s more noticeable in in the current generations in the Gen. X and Zed generations, I think I think there’s a few reasons. I wonder whether it’s actually just more publicised like, rather than kind of we used to have in our early careers where we used to have conversations down the pub with our friends, moaning about our bosses and how we’re just gonna, you know, do what we need to do until we get another job. Whereas now, you know, we’d express those thoughts and emotions in the pub, whereas now social media is where you express those thoughts and emotions. So this is what’s going around tick tock, then yeah, is gonna get picked up by the media and it is going to be sensationalised. But I think you raised a really good point there as well that, you know, the hustle generation, if we look at our parents, you know, what, what was our experience? Is it as Gen Y Gen Gen Z kids, you know, yes, we saw our parents working hard. We had incredible role models in terms of a good work ethic. But we also had absent parents. And we also had, you know, parents burning out and experiencing mental health troubles, you know, physical health difficulties. Now, and I think there’s just a shift of having seen and we know as well statistically, you know, the the physiological impacts of a high stress life, increased heart disease, cancer out, there’s so many different different things that is not too surprising that, that the generations that have observed this as children, and now starting to prioritise work life, work life balance, and I think once you then lay over the pandemic, on top of that, in terms of this kind of car, panic, carpe diem attitude, and completely reimagining what work is and how it fits in with our lives, I don’t think it’s any real surprise that this is now coming to the forefront of something that’s really, really important. And we have to, we have to manage, we actually finally have to address it and manage it.

Al Elliott
I think it’s interesting, I was reading about, about Henry Ford, the you know, the guy who started Ford Motor Company, and how he supposedly invented the eight hour working day before that, it was usually a lot longer. And here’s his thinking behind it wasn’t, oh, we’ll let people be more, be happier. It was more like, we want them to have eight hours sleep, eight hours work, and then eight hours to go off and enjoy their life. So they can buy a motorcar and make the make the company even more money. But we kind of feel like I feel like we’re in that sort of era where we are redefining our workday. And what if you can do the same job and do it in four hours in the day? Why wouldn’t you?

Leanne Elliott
Absolutely. And I think that’s what what kind of makes me smile about some of the backlash that’s coming from either business leaders or career coaches or other professionals in people and culture that are kind of really you know, getting quite angry and heated about jealous perhaps is a very You know, this whole phenomenon of quiet, phenomenal, quiet quitting? I think it’s exactly that, that it’s, you’re assuming one, that because one of the main arguments is that all quiet quitting isn’t great in the long run, because it’s not gonna be good for your career. And it’s not gonna give you not having any meaning in your work means that you’re going to find that even less fulfilling, and your well being will continue to deteriorate. That’s absolutely true. But there’s some sweeping generalisations there in terms of what people actually want from work, one that they don’t derive meaning from any other aspects of their life, and they look to work as the only source of meaning. The reality is work might be just a transaction that someone has to do to get the money they need to live the lifestyle they want. But they’re deriving their meaning from sources outside of work, whether it be volunteering, whether that be within within their community, whether it be with their family, you’re making a massive assumption that people are deriving their their meaning from their work, they might not be. I think, secondly, is that you know, it’s going to be worse for your career. Or two things to that. Are we saying that it’s impossible to have a successful career unless you work to the point of burnout? Or are we saying that quiet quitting is going to be something that will, will continue and individual continue to do indefinitely, but let’s not kid ourselves? Quiet. Quitting is just a hop, skip and a jump smash to resigning, right.

Al Elliott
Yeah, definitely. And I think the, what, what’s funny is that people of my age, when we first entered the workforce, then really so this, I’m what I’m 45. So I had my first job at sort of 1920 to 25 years ago, then what kind of was the main thing in your life, because you had your friends and your socialising, you had your hobbies and, and other bits and pieces. But what was where you got external? What’s the word recognition, Id validation, external recognition and validation for effort. Or as now, there are so many people who are streaming who are gamers and stream it, who have little mini publishing empires at 19 years old, because they’ve got podcasts, they’ve got YouTube channels, they’re getting external validation from other means. And so so no longer does work provide the only external validation that they might need.

Leanne Elliott
Completely, and I think is well, that’s the thing, isn’t it? If you’re in a in a work environment that isn’t giving you that, you that validation isn’t giving that to you, it’s not incentivizing, it’s not recognising your efforts, it’s not nurturing your abilities, then it’s not worth the hustle. It’s not validating, I’m looking for it to be validating, and it’s not. So therefore, why, why put in more effort. But I’m not getting recognised anyway. And I think the real kind of kind of resting, what’s that word? hypocrisy, thank you about it all is that if you are a business owner, I guarantee I guarantee that 99% of you started your business because you were disengaged in your current work. Because you wanted to have more control what you want to have be able to be more creative. Do your work with more meaning with more purpose, you want it to be recognised for for, you know, for having this business, if you were disengaged, at some point you quiet quit, and started a business?

Al Elliott
Yep, definitely, definitely. So let me ask you that. So before I ask you how we know is happening, then have we covered off all the reasons why an employee might choose to quiet quit?

Leanne Elliott
I think so. Yeah, I think it is one assuming that that work has more meaning and to assuming that, that businesses are providing that meaning, you know, if somebody isn’t connected to the mission and the values, they’re not inspired by their leaders, then they aren’t going to disconnect from the organisation.

Al Elliott
Definitely. So we’re going to ask you, how do I know it’s happening? How do I stop it from happening? And how to prevent it from happening in the future? So let’s start with how do I know is happening as a business leader or manager?

Leanne Elliott
I think it’s gonna be really clear just within your, how your business is currently performing. I mean, there’s some really telltale signs if you have a high turnover rate. You know, before people laugh, they’ve probably gone through a good few months of quiet, quitting or being disengaged. People being off sick, burnout, presenteeism even so that’s where people actually come into work when they’re sick or when they’re ill. Because they, you know, they don’t feel it, they have an option not to have a lack of energy and work so people are not engaging if in meetings or having their cameras switched off on Zoom. If Hi, if your heart workloads had been high for a long while for more than six months, then chances are you’ve got some people in there that are quiet quitting. And I think as well if you if you’re looking at, like handle teams and you’re missing that the ideas bouncing around us to have the knowledge sharing the innovation That’s probably a sign of it as well, any kind of friction between team members, whether it be peers or with, with managers and their reports. And yeah, you’re you’re, you’re seeing in terms of your, your commercial outcomes, lower productivity, so a higher a higher cost per head than, than what you’re used to in terms of revenue generation, and lower levels of profitability. All of those things in any combination could be a sign of employee disengagement or quiet quitting.

Al Elliott
Okay, okay. So let’s say that I have seen some of those signs. And I’m like, Okay, I’m pretty sure that two or three of the people on my team, they are doing this quiet quitting, how am I going to stop it from happening?

Leanne Elliott
I think the first thing that you need to really consider as a business leader is your role in, in your employees wanting to quiet quit. And you’re really taking control and accountability for engagement within your organisation engagement isn’t, Mr. Call it isn’t, it isn’t a buzzword like quiet quitting, it’s been around for a long while it’s tangible, it’s measurable. And when it is measured, it means it can be monitored, and it can be improved. And employing investing in employee engagement will reduce quiet quitting, whatever that is. And it is going to have direct and positive impact on your business’s performance. I think ultimately, the first thing that that you need to do is to fully understand the extent of quiet quitting or disengagement within your organisation as it currently stands. And that as you all know, already, you need to run a full engagement audit, including a survey to gain insights of what how your employees are currently thinking and feeling about work. What that’s also going to do as well is actually drill down into the areas that aren’t working, why are people choosing to quiet quit? Is it because of their managers? Is it because they don’t have a clear connection and meaning to the work that they’re currently undertaking? Or the workload is too high? You know, there’s a whole host of reasons it could be, and you need to understand exactly where the issue is, to then be able to fix it to to mitigate quiet quitting within your organisation.

Al Elliott
Yeah, absolutely. And I think the I think the main thing you’ve mentioned there was that having a real reason to go into work. And if your work isn’t meaningful, then surely you’re just at some point, either going to quiet quit or actually quit if you don’t feel your work is meaningful. And even if you can’t, like let’s say, you have a young family, and you have to earn this money, you’re not going to be the same as someone who wakes up and goes into work an hour early, because I’ve had a great idea they want to implement. Yeah, so I think that the actual recognition, sorry, the reason behind why you’re going to work properly is key here, is it?

Leanne Elliott
Yeah. And I think I think it really is the starting point of everything, you know, why? Why do people get out of bed and go to work for you, rather than somebody else, you need to you know, people need to have that, that reason, and I think there’s a few different things you can do to, to kind of improve reason or, or create reason within your organisation. And as I said, I’d always start with the, with a survey and actually understanding it straight up. But if you want to start to just just kind of navigate the waters and see what you can do, then reason it is a good place to start. You know, are you providing that, that clear that energetic leadership? Do people have a vision? Do they have goals to strive to as an organisation, and then taking that a step further, and understanding the individual role of of each employee in delivering that mission and contributing to the success of the organisation? And then I think finally is looking at, you know, the values of your organisation value should be lived and breathed. They’re not just on the wall. So how are you actually bring those values to live? And how are you enabling people to connect with those values to this feeling of a greater good, so I’m not just coming to work to pay my bills, I’m coming to work to contribute to something bigger than me.

Al Elliott
So what else can can business owners managers do?

Leanne Elliott
I think the other thing to look at, as we’ve said, you know, once people have the reason to go to work, they need to understand how they contribute to it, but more so than that, do they have the freedom, you know, to, to interpret their work and to apply their strengths? Do they know that they are safe in their role do they feel trusted to deliver including in a remote environment? I think finally, actually, you know, when you’ve got that, that reason you go to work, you understand what your individual role is in it, that making sure that employees are recognised for that. That’s not just about, you know, good pay benefits, or giving praise giving feedback. It’s also about enabling people to have a voice. If people are currently quiet quitting in your organisation, the most powerful thing you could do, as a leader is give those employees a voice. Ask them, why do you feel like there’s why you quiet quitting? What can we do as a business to transform this, and we connect you with your work and with the organisation.

Al Elliott
Brilliant, brilliant. So anything else we need to know about how to stop it from happening?

Leanne Elliott
I think the often a mistake that businesses make is they’ll do one or two engagement surveys. And then they’ll just stop and think, oh, you know, now people know that we, we care. And the reality is, you need to keep running those not only for your people. But for you, as a business owner, you need these insights to be able to understand where to invest in people and culture. So it’s going to have a commercial a positive commercial impact on your business, run that survey every 12 months or so recommend that you do a post check every six months by post check, I mean, a condensed version of your annual survey that really is targeting the areas that you were you’ve invested in to try and improve just to make sure that those those investments are actually paying off. And then I think finally, it’s just, you know, tracking these engagement scores against your commercial performance. If an employee engagement and the work you’re putting into it is working and quiet quitting is being eradicated, then you should see your return on investment in terms of happier customers, higher revenue, higher productivity and higher profitability.

Al Elliott
So you shouldn’t have an idea of what quit quitting is why employees might choose to quit, quit. And you will also know how it’s happening and how you can stop it from happening both now and in the future. Is there anything else you think that would be important for our listeners to know?

Leanne Elliott
I think there’s just remember, this isn’t a new thing. This has been around for a long time, we have a new term for it. Cool. And really, ultimately, step up, take accountability, if quiet question is happening in your business, if those signs are there that they are, then do something about it, get the insights, give your employees a voice and put quiet quitting too bad for good.

Al Elliott
Brilliant Bravo. Okay, so if you’ve got any questions about this, any thoughts, any feedback, or even you got an idea for a guest on the future episode, email podcast at oblong? hq.com. There’ll be some notes as well. Some show notes, giving you some more links. If you want to know more about employee engagement, and how you could potentially work with Leanne, who is an expert in employee engagement, then go to oblong hq.com And there’s more information there. So shall we see everyone next time?

Leanne Elliott
Yep, see you next time.