Ep35: From Baby Boomers to Gen-Z: A Cross-Generational Talk on the Modern Workplace

A Boomer, Zoomer, Millennial and Gen-X walk into a bar and the bar-person said…

(Answers on a postcard, please!)

This week, we’re bringing together each working generation to face off on the changes and challenges of the modern workplace.

Are Boomers misunderstood? Are Millenials entitled? Are Gen-Z really lacking soft skills? And are Gen-X the forgotten generation?

To unpack the lasted workplace trends, divided opinions and more, we’re joined by four incredible guests.

Kari Cardinale

Representing Baby Boomers, Kari is the SVP of Digital Strategy at MEA: Modern Elder Academy. She helps design and deliver unique digital programs to build a community movement online. She has a Masters degree in psychology, masters work in organizational leadership, and is passionate in leading the new frontier of global community engagement. Her energy and ability to quickly engage clients across silos and industry sectors produces profound results.

Claire Farrow

Representing Gen-X, Claire is Global Director of Content at Make a Difference Media and Events. A freelance conference producer since 2004, she has worked with some of the world’s leading publishers including The New York Times, Incisive Media, Centaur, WARC, Emap, UBM, Crain, Ten Alps and Reed.

Ashley Menzies Babatunde

Representing Millennials, Ashley is an attorney, storyteller and Host of the No Straight Path Podcast who is passionate about the intersection of humanity and career. She is a Millennial figuring out how to create structural changes that make companies and the world at large more human-centered

Isobel Reid

Representing Gen-Z, Isobel is a Associate People Development Consultany at The Lab 17, empowering high-growth companies to unlock their potential. A Psychology and neuroscience graduate, she is on a mission to level up leaders and create purpose-led workplaces in which all generations thrive.

Join the conversation we’ve all been waiting to have!

Resources

All the links mentioned in the show.

Kari: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kari-cardinale/

Claire: https://www.linkedin.com/in/claire-farrow-20896617/

Ashley: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashley-menzies-babatunde-89437036/

Isobel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/isobel-reid/

Check out the No Straight Path Podcast

https://www.ashleymenzies.com/no-straight-path

Connect with your hosts

• Connect with Al on LinkedIn 
• Connect with Leanne on LinkedIn
• Join the discussion about this episode on LinkedIn
• Email: podcast@TruthLiesandWork.com
• Follow us on Instagram @truthlieswork
• Chat with us on Twitter @truthlieswork
• YouTube channel for the podcast @TruthLiesWork
• Check us out on TikTok (LOL!!!) @truthlieswork

Related Episodes

Loved this episode? Here are some more you might like:

The Transcript

⚠️ NOTE: This is an automated transcript, so it might not always be 100% accurate!

Al Elliott 0:00
Hey Al here, I just want to let you know that today’s a bit of a special episode. It’s our very first video podcast. So if you check out the show notes, you’ll be able to see the link to the YouTube video where you’ll see the entire thing on YouTube for the very first time we’re showing our faces live on video. But you also might notice that the audio is slightly more tinny than normal. That’s because we’re recording on video obviously, which we’re hopefully going to fix soon. So enjoy the episode.

Leanne Elliott 0:29
Hello, and welcome to the truth lies of workplace culture podcast brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne. I’m a Business psychologist. My name is Al and I’m a business owner and we are here to help you simplify the science of people and create amazing workplace cultures.

Al Elliott 0:47
Now that one man nice one kid,

Leanne Elliott 0:49
you might you can see us today. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can see is like an animation. I guess you’ve all seen our pictures because it’s on there. Now.

Al Elliott 1:00
Okay, you’ve been kind of waiting for the camera now.

Unknown Speaker 1:02
Hi. Hi, Sally.

Al Elliott 1:06
has been a bit of a wee bit of a challenge getting this one set up just because we’re like, technically how we’re sitting next to each other as you can tell the same background effect. Can I say hello. But, but we’re trying to record and he’s just anyway. So what are we talking about today? Lea?

Leanne Elliott 1:23
Today this this episode has been a long while in the planning in the recording in the putting together. Today we have our very first generational panel. We talk a lot about generations on the podcast, we talk about Gen X a lot Gen Xer no we don’t we don’t talk about Gen Z. That’s why we talk about Gen Z and a lot Millennials a lot of boomers from time to time. So we thought you know what, rather than just reference these people, we should bring each each one representative each one onto the podcast, and have a little a little conversation, see what see what’s occurring, see what we think of each other, and see what we can learn.

Al Elliott 1:59
Slowly, I’m going ahead and go out of bounds for guests. For us. I think we had three of them all on at once. And then one of them, which was she’s in Australia. So if she couldn’t make it at the same time as the rest of the people who around the world. So we’ve got her slight separately, but this is going to be a great, great episode. Because finally like I’m Gen X or five, sorry, I just shouldn’t disclose. I know we’ve got notes. And you could do that later on. But but the what we’re going to find here is going to be the main major differences between the generations and we’ve got these representatives or the one of them’s a representative rather than actual generation which we unexplained this.

Leanne Elliott 2:33
Yeah. So what I thought we’d do is to start with is maybe just kind of kind of go through each generation, the years that they were born, the typical ages now, and what we know from generational studies in terms of their influences, and their characteristics. And that’s why we talk about generations, because what happens in the world around us as we’re growing up is we’re hitting adolescence, that really shapes our identity and how we see the world and how we navigate it. So we thought we’d start with that. Did you want to go first with the boomers? Yeah, so boomers

Al Elliott 3:04
were born between 1946 and 1964, which means that currently they 59 to 77 years old. There’s some great little notes here which I’m looking off to my to my left here. But she says that they are influenced by civil civil rights, television and medical progress. And the characteristics are they’re educated independent, they question authority, although they don’t like their authority questioned in my experience of of knowing boomers, and their quality focused so that is the first one baby boom in 1940s 60s 1964.

Leanne Elliott 3:39
Yeah, it’s interesting, isn’t it? Both our parents are our baby boomers. And I think get get civil rights mine are both of our fathers and very annual mother as well that she’s very political, very involved in in politics. And I think it’s one times the quality focus like you always have a story about John Lewis and the PMS.

Al Elliott 3:58
Oh, sorry. I thought he meant I was ever story. Look, I do stories to you. We always

Leanne Elliott 4:02
go on about how John Lewis like showrooms will never go out because of blah, blah. And now

Al Elliott 4:06
I do. Plan tell from the record right now. But then the rug there are companies like BT, and BT British Telecom, it’s the May I suppose would it be? I can’t think of the equivalent is in I can’t remember the name in the US, but basically, they’re like that they were nationalised. So everyone had their telephones through BT and then they got privatised, but still, the majority of people who haven’t been a majority of boomers have BT, and the majority of BT customers are boomers, because they are reliable. They’ve grown up with them. So they’re all about quality. And they’re all about sort of reliability.

Leanne Elliott 4:41
We’ve got Gen X. So Gen X were born between 1965 and 1980, which makes them between 43. I’m 60 years old. They were influenced by commercialism, computers and working parents, and their characteristics are self reliant. sceptical, sceptical, sceptical, why Can I say that word sceptical and adaptable to change?

Al Elliott 5:04
I’m Gen X, and I am probably all of those things. Yep. So for lying, yep, sceptical from time to time adaptable to change 100%. And yeah, I think computers were a big thing. When I was a kid I used to get something called Computer Shopper, which was a big magazine about our big bank, multi magazine about this thick used to go through and look oh, I can build a computer and look at all these cool things. But I knew I wasn’t super nerd. Lots of other people who are Gen Xers were probably a lot cooler than me.

Unknown Speaker 5:28
Probably pianist.

Leanne Elliott 5:31
Now, but I think it’s true isn’t I think the working parents advice in that. That? Yeah, that self reliance and independence, I definitely see in my eldest sisters who are at Gen X and in here as well.

Al Elliott 5:41
Okay, so then the next the next ones are called millennials, but really, they’re sort of Gen Y, because they went x y Zed. So the Gen Y, but the millennials because they were born between 1981 and 1996, which means they’re 26 to 44 years old. Do you know any millennials? Liam?

Leanne Elliott 5:57
I do. I’m a millennial. I’m an older millennial. 1984. So yeah, I think am I Yeah, millennials interesting. We will have been influenced by terrorism, the boom and technology, much more helicopter parenting.

Al Elliott 6:12
What is helicopter parents?

Leanne Elliott 6:13
Parents always been around being controlling, hovering. Yeah, and characteristic positive. I like to think so. Entrepreneurial, socially. were keen on flexibility. I would agree with all that. And I think as well what is interesting when you like I was saying I was 16 when 911 happened. And it did just seem that after that it was just thing after thing after thing after thing. But um, but yeah, I think that has definitely made us more socially aware. And I guess positive because if you dive too deep into our programme cuts through the day, anyway, Gen Z, Gen Z, Z, depending if you’re you’re British or American, I guess 1997 to 2009, which makes them between 13 and 26 years old, influenced by climate change the recession. And they’ve got of course, digital natives, which means their characteristics are environmental, impatient, introverted, and imaginative.

Al Elliott 7:09
And if you I don’t know about you, but I get it my sort of Google News because because I’m going to Gen X. So I’ll use Google News. Gen. Zed will probably use tick tock, but in that I do see a lot of people a lot of articles around about Gen Zed, and how they, how they had their approach to work. And they do say that they don’t want to see anyone like, you know, someone rings, if you try and ring and Gen Zed on them on the phone, literally pick your phone up and dial them in, they’re never going to answer because they were like, Who the hell is ringing me this phone isn’t for for ringing, there’s phones for all the other stuff. So I think that’s quite interesting. And the final one is Gen alpha. Now they are from 2010 to 2020 threes, that means they are zero or minus at the moment age, up until the age of 13. So with the generation, I tell them, what’s good enough to generate for alpha will be generated. And I’m guessing we’ve got another 20 250 years of them. So they are influenced by social networking and by global climate issues. Their characteristics are this so far. I mean, I have to say they the characteristics, the oldest one is 13. So it’s very difficult to kind of like generalise here, when you’ve got someone who’s not quite adult age, but they seem to be self sufficient, and entrepreneurial. And I would like to talk a little bit at some point, not today, but some point. But why they’re entrepreneurial. Is that because their parents who might be millennials also are entrepreneurial. I don’t know. Interesting.

Leanne Elliott 8:29
Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So there are there are generations. Of course, we don’t have a Gen alpha with us today, but wanted to kind of finish off, finish off the set there. So yeah, I guess one of the first things will change. We’ll go through our guests in a second. But our first question to them was, what is your favourite thing about being a gym? Whatever. I was gonna say x, but that doesn’t work, does it? Sorry, it’s why is it two hours? Probably only fair if we answer this question ourselves as well. So you go first, you are a Gen X. What is your favourite thing about being a Gen X?

Al Elliott 9:00
It’s kind of tough, isn’t it? Because you can say, What’s your favourite thing about the most My favourite thing about being born in that particular era? Or is it what my favourite thing about? I’m a Gen X right now?

Leanne Elliott 9:10
Either both.

Al Elliott 9:12
Well, in terms of that era, what is quite cool is, I’m just gonna double check. I’ve got my maths right here, but I think the Gen X was, yeah, Gen X was was the era where we went to the moon, which is kind of cool. So I think that’s my favourite thing about being Gen X is that my generation, we were nothing to do go to the moon because the oldest one was four, I think when it would happen, but it was in our sort of generation, which I think is pretty cool.

Leanne Elliott 9:34
And so I’m a millennial, or a geriatric millennial, as I’ve heard coined if you are born in the early 80s. My favourite thing and this is probably from for being a geriatric millennial being born in the mid 80s, but I think it was not it was remembering a time before the internet before social media, and having my adolescence not documented online. I’ll be eternally thankful for that was Not a pretty period, both physically and literally and metaphorically. So I’m very glad about that. And I like I like that I remember landline telephones. I like that I remember my dad sat me down and going this is the internet is gonna change the world. I feel like I was part of a bit of history and I think it may be alluding to kind of what I’ve mentioned before as well. We have seen a lot of history as millennials, you know, terrorism, wars, recessions, pandemics. I think that makes us quite resilient. I think it makes us quite pragmatic. I think that’s where that flex keen on flexibility comes in. I think there is probably a small dark part inside every, every millennial. It’s fairly convinced the world’s gonna end tomorrow. So that’s just that’s just roll with it.

Al Elliott 10:47
Well, better be quick then if we’re planning for tomorrow. So she’ll go meet Justin. So Who have we got

Leanne Elliott 10:52
we shipped? So we’ve got Kerry cardinally, who is representing our baby boomer voice. She is not a boomer. I think she’s actually a Gen X. But as to why she’s representing the boomers all makes sense. When Carrie introduces herself. We also have Claire Farrow, she is our Gen X. We have Ashley Menzies Babington de, he was our millennial and Isabel Reed, who is our gym, Zed. Now, if you want to try and help yourself keep track of this if you are just listening on audio, or if you’d rather see all of our beautiful guests, then head over to YouTube and you will see this full episode on video as well. But if you’re just audio to keep track, I thought what might help Claire or Gen X is from the UK. So she has a British accent. And Isabel, our Gen Zed is from Australia. So he has an Australian accent. And then we’ve got Karen Ashley here from North America. So I thought that might just help the Gen X is the Brit the Gen Zed as a millennial, which only leaves you two voices to remember. So before we go and meet our guests, I just want to mention as well, that Isabel Reed, who was our Gen Zed representative, wasn’t on the panel with us. The other three panellists when we recorded because she’s based in Sydney, and we just couldn’t make those time differences work. So what we’ve done is we’ve inserted Isabel’s clips at various points throughout the conversation where we felt that they fit in added to the discussion that was being had. But if you’re wondering why none of the other panellists refer to Isabel or Izzy by name, they’re not ignoring the Gen. Zed in the room. She wasn’t in the room. So yes, hopefully that all makes sense. Let’s go meet them.

Kari Cardinale. 12:23
My name is Kari Cardinale.. I am the Senior Vice President of Digital Strategy at the modern elder Academy known as M E. A, is the world’s first midlife wisdom school with campuses in Baja, Mexico, Santa Fe, New Mexico, us and we have an online academy as well. So your first question is about what is my favourite thing about baby boomers. And I think one of the things that I find that is a favourite thing about baby boomers is that they are living in an era right now, that has never really existed before. That we have gained in the past 100 years, an extra 30 years of life. So 100 years ago, the average lifespan was about 47. And today, it’s around 77. But most people are living healthy much further and beyond that. And so what’s interesting is that we’re not extending childhood. And we’re not actually necessarily extending the last years of our life when we are at our most frail, but there’s this middle point. And that is where we have extended active, healthy living. So the baby boomers are the first generation where they kind of feel the same in their 60s, as they may have in their 30s or 40s. And they’re still actively building careers and professional passions, and it’s just moving much further down the road. So it’s an interesting generation to watch how they are pioneering, being incredibly active through their 70s and into their 80s I think, just paving the way for other generations to follow and the mindset changes that can occur to benefit the other generations knowing I’m gonna live to be 100 I can continue my career, I can have lots of different careers in my life. And you know, may not always be perfectly done. But when you’re pioneering or paving your way, there are some interesting things to watch when you hit something for the first time.

Leanne Elliott 14:31
Fantastic. Carrie, thank you so much. And moving on to Claire.

Claire Farrow 14:35
So my name is Claire Farrow, I’m the Global Head of Content for make a difference media. And I also oversee the content for our annual events, which is called the Mad World Summit. And also another event that we run called the watercooler and across all of our platforms we take a fresh look at the future of work and business through the lens of mental health and wellbeing and In the content that we produce is for employers who want to understand what they can do to support the workplace well being of their colleagues. So we try and stay stay up to date with the latest developments, and also help them to navigate the maze of information that’s out there at the moment. And so thank you very much for inviting me to be part of this discussion. It’s really interesting that we’re talking about generations and differences between generations again. Because actually, when I remember working on, I think, was the mod wheel summit in 2019. And I wanted to do a session about this about diversity. And I was told, Oh, nobody’s talking about that anymore. we’ve realised there is no difference, actually, between generations, it’s individuals that matter. And I do have some sympathy with that perspective. Actually, I do. Because I was thinking about this before came on, I was thinking, you know, is that a generational stain? Or really, you know, I know lots of people that they maybe behave like that, but that’s nothing to do with their generation. But I do think I’m hearing more and more from employers that we’re talking to, and you know, from the feedback we get through questions on the webinars and things like that. I think since the pandemic, there has been an increase in conversations around generational differences again, and I don’t know why that is, I think maybe it’s partly because the pandemic accelerated some of the trends that were already kind of in motion, particularly around technology. And that’s really shown up some sort of differences between you know, it’s it’s highlighted the differences between generations in the workplace. Or it could be because the pandemic has made a lot of people in their 50s reevaluate their lives and decide to opt out of the workplace. And I think that’s something that we’re kind of seeing increasingly and the government here in the UK is trying to push back against and encouraging people in their 50s to to try stay in work. So as somebody in my 50s, you asked, what, what is the what? What’s your favourite thing about being a Gen X? So I think I love being a Gen X, because I’m not addicted to technology. That’s my my first reason I have got I’ve got two sons, one’s nearly 25, and the other one’s 21. And particularly the 21 year old again, it could be to do with personality more than anything. But you know, he can’t be separated from his phone. You know, you literally can’t walk around the house without that phone. I’m like, thank goodness, I’m not like that. Because I can kind of experience it feels to me as if I’m experiencing life in a different way. When I’m not attached to my phone. And I can, you know, in fact that my sons have a go at me because sometimes I leave, I quite often leave the house without my phone. And like, don’t Why did you take your phone Mum, I was like, what do you do? You know? So I think that that’s one of the great things about being Gen X. And I’d say over to over to the next person.

Leanne Elliott 18:10
Fantastic. So Ashley, yeah, introduce yourself. And what’s your favourite thing about being a millennial?

Ashley Menzies 18:16
Absolutely. So I am Ashley Menzies, Bob attune de and I am an attorney, a storyteller. I am the pod hat, the podcast host and creator of no straight path, which is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network. So very excited to be connected with Leanne and some podcast host of no straight path. And we look at the human stories behind success from the millennial perspective, right. So when we look at social media, we’re seeing all of the highlights. When we look at LinkedIn, we looked at our resumes, we’re seeing all the highlights, but we’re not really seeing the failures, the setbacks, the pivots, finding purpose, all of the human experience behind that. And so that’s what we look at, on my podcast. And we certainly talk to different generations, we’re very open, and we have great discussions. But we do focus on the millennial perspective. And it’s been a really fun experience. And in my day job, I do a lot of investigations as an attorney. And that’s been really fun. And a lot of people focus to work. So I’m really interested in human centred work, how do we create systems to better support our humanity? And that’s the work I tried to do on my podcast, and as an attorney.

Leanne Elliott 19:24
Can you tell me a bit more about your work as in and what you do?

Isobel Reid 19:28
Yeah, so I work as a people development consultant. So I work internally for a company called the lab seven team, which we have 20 employees. We are based in Australia and we have a couple of employees in Serbia, who support us on the talent acquisition from the two arms or talent acquisition and people development. So in the people development arm, we really support startups scale up, tech companies. Is with any sort of scaling challenge that they have, from what I’ve worked on previously, which has been people operation. So in the weeds of onboarding, off boarding, contracting policies, through to people experience, I talking about engagement, benefits, and then through to employee development, so learning and development for employees. So we cover a lot of bases. And I am currently on a partnership with the bank in the financial services. I think, for me, personally, I have a background in psychology, and I made the decision quite early on in my psychology degree that instead of doing clinical psychology, I thought my skills would be best use of my strengths would be best based in delivery to a larger audience. And hence, why I want this podcast now. I think for, for me to feel fulfilled, and for me to feel like I’m having an impact in my role. I love the idea of the widespread effects that I can have. And so, for me to be in startups help companies where there is a lot of work to do. In this space, there’s often not a lot of structure in place around people and culture, and the initiatives and actions that we do. So you’re starting from ground zero sometimes, which is a really exciting space to be beginning building ground up. But I think you just have such a widespread impact on so many people from your junior employees through to your most senior executives, you are someone that’s there to be a soundboard, you’re someone that’s there to provide learning and development opportunities. You’re someone that’s there to support on events or activations, you really do wear a lot of hats. And when adequately resource that can be an incredibly fulfilling space to be and I think my favourite thing about being a jet Zed is just based in the way that we are at the forefront of pioneering different ways of working and pioneering different strategies of making work work best for us. And I think it’s a really exciting space to be in demanding what we want, and then shaping organisations to support us in doing that. Carrie, I’d

Leanne Elliott 22:53
like to, I’d like to come to you first because there’s so what you said there in your introduction, your favourite thing about boomers that it was a fresh, fresh thought for me in terms of that they’re pioneering, you know, something, something new, and that’s not often always something we associate with, with older generations has been there as those pioneers. So I guess my question is, do you think boomers are misunderstood?

Kari Cardinale. 23:16
What a great question. I think, absolutely. I think that boomers have kind of become a generational scapegoat for everything that’s going wrong on the planet. And and that’s not necessarily the case. You know, they they were the largest generation in the United States, but they’ve now been eclipsed by millennials. But nonetheless, I do believe it was huge generation that emerged after World War Two, that broke a lot of moulds as they went through each generation. So the Boomers were in many ways, pioneers, that they took an era of great predictability, coming out of the 1950s in the post war when everyone just wanted things to be quiet and predictable and simple. So you saw the rise of suburban households and moms being at home and cookies after school. And there was this need for things to be consistent. And yet this generation, the Boomers were became the hippies and the rock and rollers and playing with drugs and jumping out of those predictable career paths. And all along the way, finding a desire to do things different and in a different way. And not everything was reckless that, you know, the boomers are known for, you know, making travelling interesting and passing seatbelt laws. At the same time. They were really the generation that pioneered activism that took from the activism of the 1920s a woman’s right to vote and took it to another level of activism, as well as volunteerism, the creation of the Peace Corps. So it was a generation that continues to this day to be highly innovative with more entrepreneurs, which I can speak a bit more about later and comes to business and and some of the high As philanthropic giving, coming from this generation, so I do think they’re a bit misunderstood and, and you know, as you had said, Claire, there was sort of a flattening of the generations, but then there was also this, okay, Boomer, okay millennial, there’s still these levels of, of not fully understanding the different generations. And you know, my rule of thumb is that anyone who’s 15 years older than you feels old. So, you know, we just generationally struggle sometimes to fully embrace someone who is 15 years younger or older than we are. And yet, there’s so much richness to learn.

Leanne Elliott 25:38
And with that, I mean, coming to you, Claire, you know, Boomer versus millennial, and now Gen Zed is being talked about a lot more. At Gen X, the Forgotten generation, do we talk about Gen X?

Claire Farrow 25:52
See, I had loads of think about this before coming on the podcast, I don’t think we are the Forgotten generation, actually, you know, we’re we’re all working hard, where we’re kind of reaping the rewards of our efforts. I think it does completely vary, obviously, you know, from organisation to organisation. We’re often in in senior management roles. I think maybe what people forget sometimes is that things like technology don’t perhaps come as easily to our generation, as to others. And so maybe we do need a bit of extra input on that. A bit of extra training, there’s room for some skills development, for instance. But I don’t think that the so I’d say that maybe in that respect, organisations need to be switched on to understanding the needs of our generation. And I’d also think a lot of people in my generation are, you know, sandwiched right in the middle between elderly parents and sort of growing children. And it’s those kinds of needs that need to be understood. And people need to remember that, you know, we still have a huge amount of value that we can bring to the workplace, whilst also juggling all these responsibilities. So I think the really switched on employers are the ones that tune into people’s actual individual contributions and what they can make, regardless of what their you know, home circumstances are, whatever, there may be also people who’ve, you know, experienced divorce or, you know, be going through other sort of transitions in their lives around sort of my age. And, again, it’s kind of employers need to be switched on to the kinds of things that may be impacting, you know, people of my generation, I guess.

Leanne Elliott 27:40
Absolutely. I think that’s something that, I think and again, how the world of work is evolving, where we are seeing more work life integration, rather than segregation, it’s going to be these issues that are really going to start to start to have an impact. I mean, in terms of your thoughts, Ashley, I know you mentioned in terms of when you introduce yourself that and it’s all the you know, the drive behind your podcast, as well to show different stories, there is no straight path to to success, and that millennials, you know, have started to change perhaps or where they work, what work looks like, what do you think some of the biggest differences are for you in in terms of how Millennials see work approach work craftworkers As part of their lives?

Ashley Menzies 28:23
Yeah, so I think the biggest shift that I’ve seen, and it’s something that I think we’ve always wanted, but I believe Claire mentioned this earlier of just about the change in the trends were really sped up by the pandemic, right. So remote work was a big thing that I think has really changed all generations perspectives, and I think millennials are into it. We love it. We love a remote work situation. And so I think that that’s something that’s not, it’s now a part of the way that we want to work, we want to have that flexibility, we want to have control, we want to feel like we have control over our lives. I’m hearing the word freedom a lot. We want to feel free. And so I think that it is different for everyone. So I’m having a lot of conversations and freedom looks different to everyone. So some people want to have that nine to five job and just have the flexibility so that they can work on their side hustle. Some people want to just have the freedom to specifically work on that so they can just have time for their hobbies. But I think that the idea of FaceTime is something that is just of the past. And I think that millennials want to create spaces where we can continue to have this flexibility and have this control over our lives.

Leanne Elliott 29:37
And thinking of that because I know one of the main concerns around remote work hybrid work model is the challenges in innovating the challenges and connecting the challenge challenges in in, you know, knowledge sharing in how do you see those challenges as a millennial Ashley, do you think it is harder for us to connect virtually.

Ashley Menzies 29:58
So I I don’t think so. But I do think having an initial framework where you have the opportunity to get to know your co workers is important. So I think for me, it wasn’t very challenging to switch to a remote work situation, because I had developed relationships with mentors, with the younger associates with the talent development team. And a lot of that happened in the office. And so I think that there are ways to create community by having some in office opportunities or opportunities where you do just get together in person. And I think there’s also the ways to do it virtually, you know, so I think that it also depends on your perspective, when it comes to work, I think people’s perspectives are changing, you know, some people would rather just hang out with their families, and connect briefly at work and do what needs to be done, and find fulfilment outside of work. Some people really want to have that connection. So getting the opportunity to go into the office and do these kinds of things, I think is important. So it’s really like, I think the word also is the optionality, I think is important to people. But from my personal experience, I have not had an any issues with connecting with people with brainstorming, I’m happy to hop on a zoom, happy to do work with someone virtually to actually work on the Google doc together simultaneously, technology, technology has created a space for us to really work efficiently and effectively

Isobel Reid 31:29
together. There are right whacking I think, a lot of Gen Z’s at this point in time, because a lot of us entered the workforce May, especially after university, we did university during a COVID era. And so a lot of asking us to remote working, online learning, coming back to the workforce. And that being a new experience for some of us, feels quite daunting and feels like there’s a lot of ground to make up. And I’ve heard of this concept of Gen Z having fewer soft skills in the workforce than other generations previously. And that being because there is a lack of in person collaboration and in person learning. And I think there is some truth to that, to be honest, I think the moments that we spend in person are for learning and collaboration and for building our skills. And then the moments that we spend doing deep thinking work are for creating and building, and strategizing and actioning. So I would love to see a balance. For me, what that looks like would be three days in the office and two days that home. Fathers it’s different.

Leanne Elliott 33:05
So it sounds like a hybrid model, then might be something that there would be beneficial. I mean, what do you say to the inner people who are leaders who are bringing people back into the office for a set number of days a week, because that’s how we communicate, collaborate? Do you think there’s merit in that?

Isobel Reid 33:27
I do think there’s merit in that in the way that I think if you’re intentional about the days that you’re coming in, and the way that you’re spending your time with your team, there can be so much value in connecting and collaborating. It does become tricky when you are mandated to come in on set number of days, or specifically set days during the week, because every week looks different. And every employee has different projects on during the week. And there’s some times where just being at home makes sense. Because you can get more work done, you can have more deep thinking time, you are distracted less easily. And for me personally, when I have a lot of project work on I prefer to be home because I thrive in that space. Whereas if I have a lot of collaboration or facilitation that requires me to be in the office. I also thrive in that space as well. So I think it would be about being intentional about why we’re coming into the office and actually scheduling the days that we are in office to involve connection as opposed to sitting at a desk with earphones in and not speaking that eight hours.

Leanne Elliott 34:47
I couldn’t agree more. I think intention is so important when with any decision breathing particularly with you know, if we’re mandating people to do a certain thing having a you know, the intention behind that to make these things happen otherwise that collapse He might happen that communication won’t happen.

Al Elliott 35:02
I have a quick question. Just something what actually said this is for the carrying Claire, this side hustle, it seems to be quite a new thing now. I’m a Gen X two. So did Boomer generation and Gen X. Did we have side hustles? And if we did, what do we call them?

Kari Cardinale. 35:22
Well, I, you know, I could certainly jump in first, I think for baby boomers, the SIR first side hustle was like a newspaper route. Right. So there were opportunities for jobs for teenagers for the baby boomer generation, that babysitting are these little jobs that are actually much harder for newer generations to to get. And I think that the idea of a side hustle, think about Tupperware parties, the rise of direct marketing companies really flourished through the Boomers to allow, you know, if it was a one income household, the other party staying home could still find a side hustle to sell Mary Kay or something to bring in a little bit of extra money. And in the world of in real life that was so much the state that it also provided a social element. And currently, a lot of baby boomers lost a good portion of their retirement in the 2008 financial crash, or just never earned enough to build this extra 30 years, like retiring at 65, or whatever. Most people don’t have enough money accumulated at that point to carry on in a healthy way into their eight. So the need to have a side hustle has become a huge, huge aspect of the boomers, professional life starting an entrepreneur project or continuing to work, expanding their skills, as Claire had mentioned, to stay in the workforce longer.

Al Elliott 36:53
What do you think that when we were younger, did we have side hustles

Claire Farrow 36:56
I actually loved the idea of side hustles I think it’s absolutely brilliant to have that much flexibility in your working life. And actually, both of my sons have got high side hustles. And they both work for employers are like totally on board with them having their side hustle. And it’s a perfect complement for them, they can get steady income. And yet they also have their time to kind of indulge sort of more passion projects that are perhaps, you know, they’re just building up in an entrepreneurial way. I think that the flexibility that it gives for entrepreneurs is brilliant. And I can completely understand why. Why the you know, the younger generation are into side hustles. Did we have side hustles? I mean, I’ve been freelance for years. So I guess maybe I don’t think I’m the norm. So, you know, I’ve been kind of side hustling for years, but I think it was yeah, as I say that was quite unusual. You know, when I started doing it, perhaps a bit more of a foreigner, the kind of the gig economy really, I could see the potential that there was in there, you know, that all of a sudden, it actually didn’t matter where you worked, you could work for anybody anywhere in the world. And of course, that’s just accelerate accelerated hugely over the years. So yeah, I can see people are the people I know, from my generation, have never had side hustles or would have thought of doing that. Because they had steady jobs, and would see that as their main income, you know, or they would move job. But we’d be prepared to stay in that job for for years and years unexpected have their careers developed, you know, over that time. So I’d say yeah, there’s definitely a difference.

Leanne Elliott 38:37
And I think we know we’ve talked a lot, quite a bit of technology has come up social media has come up. And I think as well as Rise of the side hustle often, you know, with a man, as Jen says tends to be technology based. I mean, Ashley, in terms of your experiences, I mean, what impact has social media had on on the workplace and on how millennials view work?

Ashley Menzies 38:59
Yeah, I think that’s a good question. I really think the first thing that comes to mind is LinkedIn. I think that that is the way now that people honestly get jobs. It’s through social media. It’s through social media networking, and even the rise of thought leadership on specific social media platforms. Just being able to have this exchange of information and understanding it, you don’t even and I’ve talked to a lot of people from the Gen Z population, not to overgeneralize. But a lot of them say they don’t even read books anymore. Like they will just go to that specific influencer. And I’ve noticed myself going on LinkedIn, and following specific creators and influencers who are talking about different work issues, like I’m really passionate about the human centred work in organisational psychology. So I’ll follow those thought leaders. And that really can inform the work that you’re doing in your workplace and it’s just an easier accessible way to access knowledge. And I think the other thing that you’re seeing is social media brand man enrollment is an entire industry, right? So when I was in high school that wasn’t really a job, podcasting wasn’t really a job. But after coming out of college, that is something that you can apply to every brand, every business needs to be on social media to reach their customers to understand what they want. And even when it comes to advertisements, when we’re looking at social media now, it’s all via these influencers, micro influencers, that’s you want to see relatability, like the rise of, you know, I don’t know, maybe it’s celebrity celebrities are still popular, but it’s a bit different. So you’re seeing how social media is really just infiltrating your business, your workplace, the trend setting, it’s here to stay. And I am still figuring it out. To be quite honest, the advent of tick tock like, I am still getting there. So many of my friends are on it. But um, yeah.

Leanne Elliott 40:54
And how does that what does that mean for baby boomers carry? Particularly that you? You know, you’re saying they’re, you know, they’re finding themselves in a position where work is, is remaining part of life for longer in their pioneering that? I guess my question is, how does social media play into that? Does it perhaps, is it an added challenge for for the boomer generation who didn’t grow with it aren’t as familiar? And perhaps maybe as well a bit about the about the modern elder Academy and the work that that you’re doing there to help facilitate this this shift?

Kari Cardinale. 41:25
Yeah, sure. Thank you. I think social media I love actually hearing Ashley saying that she doesn’t understand Tik Tok, I feel like way better now knowing that. Wow, cool. I don’t feel it’s irrelevant. But I think that when it comes to technology, it’s so interesting that it is a way to like do a little microscope on each generation that would technology to this level, the internet, computers, phones, software, was entirely new to the boomer generation as adults. So they had already created a fully functioning careers without any of those tools. And at that time, it was actually hard learning technology was a pain in the butt. Like you had to take a class to learn how to do Excel. Right? Like it was hard, like, Oh, my God, and then they would change the interface on Microsoft Word. And everyone I couldn’t find the buttons, who was our brain wasn’t really used to it, we hadn’t seen it. And so that created like a certain muscle memory. I think in the boomer generation, that technology is going to be hard to learn, it’s going to be a hassle to learn it. And I think that is just a residual element that some people might recognise when you see, you know, someone handing their phone to their kid to go, I don’t What is this, versus other generations, you know, now, we’re astonished that Boomers to see like a two year old taking an iPad and like popping and swiping and opening thing, it’s like mind blowing, that technology’s become that simple, that a toddler could use it. But you know, the rise of social media. It was not pioneered necessarily by the boomers and how to use it for community connection, but yet it’s become so valuable. We talked about the pandemic, as you had said, Claire, really bringing up the different needs for technology in various generations. Social media is here to stay Zoom is here to stay, the pandemic crashed everybody’s idea that this was an irrelevant platform. And suddenly, we’re on Zoom funerals. We’re babysitting grandchildren on Zoom. We’re meeting coworkers. Now for the first time virtually, that we might not meet in person, it’s all kind of new, but also discovering what I like to call digital intimacy. That there is this deep intimacy that’s available online. That is this delightful discovery that suddenly now you can build connections with people all over the world and feel as you know, satisfied in the quality of that relationship. That suddenly doesn’t matter as much if we come together. And certainly at the modern elder Academy, was founded by Chip Conley, who was the epitome of a baby boomer connector. He was a rebel hospitality hotelier created these super boo Tiki hotels that were all fostered around themes and community did very well sold that in his 50s started at 25. So that it’s 50s. And midlife wasn’t sure what to do next, and then ended up being approached by Brian Chesky and a team at Airbnb to help mentor them who were 25 year olds to launch this little unknown thing called Airbnb. And he it became the ultimate story of the generations that here’s someone coming in who had in real life experience who’d never heard of a SaaS product had no idea what these terms were, and had to navigate his innate wisdom and business with their sheer raw, intuitive capacity and to build this great idea. They called him to modern elder. And his first reaction was a bunch of expletives that I’m not gonna be able to say on the air. That was his reaction was Fu. I’m not a modern elder. That sounds horrible. That sounds like elderly. But the reaction was No. Modern elder is someone who is as curious as they are wise. thought, Oh, well, okay, cool. I’ll take that on. So he ended up writing a book called wisdom at work, which was all about this idea of being a mentor and a mentor and an intern. At any age, you could be 18 years old, and mentor someone who’s 16, and be an intern to someone who’s 25 like to just open up this possibility of being open to learning and teaching throughout the generations, he opened the modern elder Academy in Mexico, which became a destination resort, five star hospitality place to immerse yourself in exploring the transitions of life. And midlife has now been defined to be anywhere from age 35 to 70. So wow, it’s just it’s a stage of life, when things are shifting, maybe you’ve aged out of your career in tech at 35. And you’re wondering what’s next, or maybe you don’t pick up your head till you’re in your 70s. So created all this cool programming. That’s everything from introspective conversations and thought leadership, to Learning to Surf and making margaritas and everything in between. And then my job was to create this idea of modern elder wisdom and put it into an online forum. So I got to apply these ideas of digital intimacy and bring people together in a retreat type immersion experience. So they can gain those insights without having to travel without having to leave their jobs. And we’ve had huge success. We’ve had 3000 alumni from 42 countries through the pandemic, that were able to explore this stage of life. So it’s been a lot of fun.

Leanne Elliott 46:54
And it is there. I’ve watched one of the chips TED talk, and it is fascinating how he talks about the monitoring, and its relevance within within the modern workplace is how does that resonate with us? Because I know also you mentor the gens, Adela. How? How do you feel that would that would work in that world? D. Could you imagine a 16 year old being paired up with a baby boomer in a mentoring relationship?

Ashley Menzies 47:20
Yeah, absolutely. I just love that idea. I love that so much. Because I think you can learn so much from people with different lived experiences. And one different lived experience is generation. Right? And it goes both ways. So I think it’s extremely important. And I think it’s something that we need to do. So I just love that whole idea. And I also just love the term digital intimacy, because it reminded me that I actually got to know my partner mentor, at my firm during the pandemic, a lot more than when she was three offices down for me, she was in trial a lot, I was moving back and forth or going between, you know, quickly, I would see her in the bathroom, or actually at the watercooler. They talked about this watercooler talk, but we’d actually have more intimate conversations about my career journey, what I wanted to do, she had pointed me to a specific leadership position, all of that happened over zoom. And I really got to know people more, actually, during the pandemic, because we were having certain topic discussions that lead to more vulnerability and more empathy. And so, I completely agree, I think that you’re able to closely connect with people, even if they’re very far away. Absolutely.

Leanne Elliott 48:37
Claire, coming coming to you, and I’m intrigued to ask about some we’re gonna need you lots of research and insights gathering yet make a difference media, what are you seeing in terms of the views of these generational differences, of expectations of opinion of experiences of well being? Are there any kind of, of headlines you could share with us?

Claire Farrow 48:58
Well, it’s interesting, because you might think that, you know, the older generations aren’t thriving as much at work, but actually, it’s the opposite. There’s research that’s actually about to come out, but I it’s sort of under embargo at the moment, I can’t refer to too much detail. But I can tell you that there’s kind of top line insights, which are the, the it’s actually the millennia of the younger generations who who are struggling more with their sort of well being at work than the older ones. And you think well, what will wise, you know, maybe that’s surprising. And partly it’s because the older older generations kind of understand themselves more they they they know how to control their emotions, perhaps a bit more being a little bit generalist about it. They perhaps have thought more about kind of what what actually gives them purpose and and you know, of, you know, fulfilling those roles, and also perhaps have a little bit more Work life balance. And so, you know, I think that, in terms of the research that we’ve done ourselves, has shown that younger generations do expect more from their employers in terms of the kinds of support that they’d like to see them giving to help with their well being, the older generation perhaps are accepting that it’s more their personal responsibility. And they’re also wanting to see workplace cultures which is so such an important part of workplace well being actually, that, that support workplace wellbeing. So it’s not just having a culture of care. It’s also having a workplace culture, that’s that’s actually thought about work life balance that has thought about whether they’re recruiting the right people to the right job, and allows for the kind of flexibility that you were talking about before actually about, you know, allowing for side hustle or allowing somebody to do a four day week, for instance. So that’s kind of coming a bit more from from the millennials. But having said that, lots of people in my generation, appreciate the idea of four day week as well, because it allows you time to catch up on some of your other commitments, you know, and achieved that work life balance that I suppose everybody’s looking for ultimately.

Leanne Elliott 51:18
So what do you think it is that, that you want the Gen Zed one that is perhaps different to what’s gone before.

Isobel Reid 51:28
I think first and foremost, this has been my experience that I find a connection to vision, values, and goals to be something that I hold to the utmost regard. I have previously been with Lululemon as a retail store assistant. And I think my experiences with connecting to their vision values and their goals was, even when I was on the retail floor, they bought all of the employees along for the journey. And aligned all of these employees with their values helped all of the employers connect with their goals and where they wanted to go. And made the employees feel as though we’re helping propel them there. And so I think that just the way that companies can do that would look like in the initial stages of onboarding, taking employees through that lifecycle of where we are currently, where we’re going, and then how you can help us get there, as well, really, really supporting learning and development. And I know a lot of companies will say that they have really great learning and development opportunities. And that would look like potentially having a day off to go to a conference or potentially having meet and greets, or different events that are put on by work. But in my experience, as well, I have seen companies that really care about the employee, both as an employee of the company, but then also as an employee who goes out into the workforce and who speaks about their previous experience at one company. And that previous experience then translates to incredible skills that they learned whilst they were there. And it shines a really positive light on the organisation. So employers that are really honest and open about the career journey where someone wants to go, and who they can introduce them to to get there, or their employees the skills that they can teach them to help them succeed.

Leanne Elliott 53:44
Yeah, absolutely. And can I ask why kind of, if you know even where this kind of drive comes from, particularly in terms of kind of the vision and the values and the why we hear that a lot, and the research is suggesting that as well. Do you know where that drive comes from? Why is that? You said it’s your most highest priority? Whereby that?

Isobel Reid 54:06
Yeah, I think it’s quite interesting. And I’ve also looked into the research as well. And I think, from my findings, it taught me that 50% of Gen Z said they wouldn’t accept a job that didn’t align with their vision and values. And I think this is especially around social and environmental issues. And that was compared to just over a third of baby boomers. So there’s a really big push for companies to be responsible to do better. In my personal opinion, I think the way that the media is nowadays that you hear so much more about what companies are doing, previous employees are so much more outspoken about their experiences. And those experiences are then translated through the media, or through LinkedIn. You get more of an insight out into companies internally. And I think the way that then employees will base their intention to go to a job will be based upon the things that they hear. So I think that the information that’s coming in to us, we then decide make our decisions about a job or a prospective job. And based upon that information, and just the way that our generation specifically is so empowered in our environmental considerations and our social considerations, and there’s a huge emphasis on DNI in this space, as well. And I think that this has been something that has been really pioneering at the forefront of most of the people and culture spaces and initiatives in the past five to 10 years. And that’s been almost as long as the Gen Z has been in the workforce.

Leanne Elliott 56:05
There’s a soft skills gap with Gen Z, and he said, you know, an extent you can, you can see that I mean, in terms of, you know, assuming that there is a gap, how do we help our Gen Zed workforce address that skill gap? How can we better support them to develop those soft skills?

Isobel Reid 56:23
I love that question. I think some of the onus falls on the people, leaders are the managers of these gems ads in the workforce, I think I see the gap most clearly in communication and standards around communication, and particularly when you’re giving feedback or receiving feedback, or asking for feedback. So I think feedback is a muscle that a lot of people need to train no matter whether you’re a Gen Zed, or whether you have been in the workforce for 20 3040 years. So I think, for managers to upskill their employees in feedback conversations, is going to be really, really important, as well as conversations around your capacity, your priorities, and what’s on your plate, and how to respond to a request. If it comes in to move something off your priorities list to then be able to get something on I find that in my experience, a lot of Gen Zed are more likely to take on tasks, just by virtue of being in a more junior role, wanting to prove themselves wanting to be seen and be heard and do a really good job. And also not having the the courage or the bravery to push back in those early stages of their career. So I think as well empowering them to do so and giving them the language or coaching them in the language on how to prioritise and then how to push back.

Leanne Elliott 58:12
Do you think that might be part of the reason we’ve seen a spike in burnout amongst the Gen Zed age group? There’s no difficulty in saying no, and just taking a more.

Isobel Reid 58:24
Yeah, it’s a really, really interesting concept. I have personally studied burnout. And it wasn’t in a population of Gen. Zed workers, it was in a population of healthcare workers. So comparing apples and oranges. Speaking from my experience of what I’ve seen in the workforce, I would say that there’s a multitude of things. I think, for one, it is definitely about the ability to continue taking on more and more and more, and the drive for Gen Zed to do that, because they want to progress their career and sometimes in the workforce, especially when you you’re not comfortable with how capable you are in doing your job. It can feel like all you have to offer is your time, and that is your primary resource. So giving that away seems like the most logical thing to do. I think as well. There’s a lot to be said about wellness programmes within companies. And the way that companies support employee wellness and having that be something that is socialised every single day and having that the things that are actually tangibly available to employees and they’re encouraged to take as opposed to Things that might appear tokenistic or seen on benefits pages, but to be able to access those things are quite difficult, or there’s barriers to or they’re not. They’re not available to people. And often people don’t use them unless they really do need them such as VIP programmes. But in saying that don’t get me wrong, those are key key part of wellness and health in organisations, I can see that there’s other things that employees can do better.

Leanne Elliott 1:00:38
Ashley, what’s your thoughts on that, that?

How younger generations are experiencing perhaps more negative well being at the minute?

Ashley Menzies 1:00:51
Yeah, I’m actually not surprised. I completely agree with Claire, I think that our expectations from work are higher. I think that we’re a generation that grew up. And we were told that we could follow our dreams, we were told that the and I’m speaking from an American perspective, but the American dream was attainable. And we’re the first generation where we’re not actually seeing the same results. And so I think that is very challenging. The student loan debt crisis has really made it challenging for the millennial generation. We’re over educated, under compensated. And so we’re thinking, Okay, if I can get home, if I still on student loan debt, at least, these institutions, I need to be happy, I least I need to be fulfilled every day. And I think it was exacerbated by what happened at the Pan during the pandemic, when we all realise the fragility of life, right, everybody experiences loss at different stages. And so it really created a wake up call for lots of people, and especially millennials, where we don’t know what’s going to happen tomorrow. But today, I want to be happy, I want to be fulfilled. And so if I don’t feel like this institution is supporting me, it’s not supporting my well being it’s not supporting my lived experience, when we talk about di includes inclusion as a black woman, all of that comes into play. That is going to be challenging for millennials. And so I think that’s why we are not as happy. And I think that we will get there. I’m an optimist. But I think that’s also why we’ve been really creative. I think that millennials also believe that, okay, I might not get it from work. So that’s why we have the introduction, the side hustle, we have, you know, people becoming entrepreneurs becoming their own bosses, we have different initiatives, a lot of my friends are politicians, they’re going they’re activist or community organisers, they’re trying to figure out how can we create a world and a system that’s going to really give us that American dream that was promised? Because we’re not seeing it?

Claire Farrow 1:03:03
Yeah. And actually, it’s more accessible in a lot of ways, partly because of technology as well. I mean, a lot of the barriers to entry into schools or entrepreneurism have been broken down, it’s a lot easier to access now than than ever before, I think. So that’s, it’s great. I think that people see the need for that flexibility or grasping it. Yeah.

Leanne Elliott 1:03:27
Absolutely. And and Carrie, what are your thoughts? Because I think, you know, when we when we think anecdotally or maybe there’s been people we know or things we see in the media, the baby boomer generation might think well being is all just a bit of nonsense. And you know that particularly in in the UK, that stiff upper lip and crack on and get on with it, burnout didn’t exist in my day. What do you think the baby boomers current viewpoint is of this, you know, much more attention and discussion hand around well being?

Kari Cardinale. 1:03:56
You know, I don’t have the study in front of me. But it was really fascinating. There was a study shown of the common complaints of the older generation to the younger generation through the decades, and they were very similar. So it’s, I think it’s part of how our, the neuroplasticity of our brain changes as we get older, they’re sort of these perceptions of how we are in the world that feels more comfortable to us. So when we’re younger, we have this more fluid intelligence, we’re able to kind of be nimble and take risks and be adventurous and try new things. We don’t always think about the consequences of those things, but that allows the risk taking and then as we get older, our brain changes and we have crystallised intelligence that allows us to kind of gather lots of resources from different places and make more holistic decisions. So that can turn out into oh my god, the younger generation. They’re so irresponsible, they’re so lazy, they’re so this should that. Part of that I think is literally the way our brain is reflecting there. perceptions of the world. But you know, truly now more than ever, there is such a need and a desire for people to find meaning and purpose. And what does that mean? And it is very different. Ashley, you spoke so beautifully about the millennials are lost in debt. And they they had this idea that the boomers had and the Gen X tech for the most part that if you go to college, you’re gonna get a better job. Even if you’re like a philosophy major, if you get an undergraduate degree like that is your ticket to getting paid more money. And you can find a sense of purpose at your job or a sense of purpose in your family and institutions. And so much of that has gone away now that an undergraduate degree doesn’t actually mean as much. And it’s not a guarantee of all this debt, you may have to go on YouTube to train yourself on these particular skills to go get that job. So how do we find purpose has become a totally new question in the modern day, that we may find it through Ashley saying, Oh, I’m connecting with my co workers in a new way, I just want to be happy I want to follow I need more time, I need more freedom. So purpose may expand, we like to talk about having a purpose portfolio. Like what does that mean, to have a portfolio of the things that get me out of bed in the morning. And that might be attending to my family or attending to a hobby business or attending to a cause that’s really important to me. And if I have those front and centre in my life, that will help me make it through. The other things that are challenging, like my savings account is not so full, or I don’t own a home are the fears that are so prevalent, the anxieties that we have, and then certainties of the world today.

Claire Farrow 1:06:47
Okay, so it comes down to kind of understanding your priorities, isn’t it? Yeah. Like you could have different people have different priorities across their life, don’t they? And it wasn’t all it doesn’t all have to feed into work. When you’d have 100 Hope it wouldn’t all finished.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:03
It shouldn’t. Right?

Leanne Elliott 1:07:06
Is that an expectation of senior managers, though, Claire, that typically might be more generic, because it works should be, you know, the number one priority. And

Claire Farrow 1:07:17
I think, you know, if that’s the case, then they need to open their eyes and start listening to people. You know, all of this actually boils down to listening to your people and understanding their needs, understanding where they’re coming from, where they’re where they’re at, regardless of which generation, they’re, they’re in, they’re part of, so get them over, there may be an expectation around that from some people of my generation. But if there are, then they’re going to lose out because you know, they need to tune into to what their their people are saying.

Leanne Elliott 1:07:54
And as a as a Gen Xer, do you think you’re misunderstood?

Isobel Reid 1:08:01
I think the misunderstanding that I’ve experienced has come from a lot of older generations saying things along the lines of they want to work from home, so therefore, they’re not as driven or they don’t do as much or they’re not maximising their time. And I’ve had a lot of experiences where older employees have been the ones at the forefront of bringing people into work. And the reason for that being that they don’t don’t want their younger employees to fall behind. So I think that that is quite a big stigma around working from home and specifically with younger employees. But I think, you know, the, the research goes to show that a lot of people are quite productive at home, especially Gen Z when they are given those remote working opportunities. If you align the productivity with their employee experience, and then with less burnout and greater wellness, it’s such a knock on effect and fewer employees leaving the company reduced turnover is all things that are so intricately aligned with one another.

Al Elliott 1:09:33
Both of our parents have come from working class backgrounds, and it seemed like they spent most of their time working so hard to get into the middle class. Is that still a thing with millennials and Gen Xers? Do they still look at it that same way?

Claire Farrow 1:09:50
Don’t know, I mean, just looking at my own sons, I think they don’t really think in terms of class or kind of I’ve got to get a child to go to university. In fact, my eldest didn’t even go to university he chose not to, he wanted to do an apprenticeship, you know, because he recognised that actually, that might be a way to him for him to gain really valuable skills and not have a debt at the end of the day. So but I think they do, they do look at what their peers are doing. They look at what influencers are doing as well, and what their idea of successful is, but that, again, is can be different. It’s not necessarily about, you know, how big your house is, or what kind of car you’re driving. You know, it could be about the kind of lifestyle that you’re living, having having a job that offers the flexibility to work whilst you’re abroad. And, you know, have just bought a week, for instance. So I think that yeah, the drives are still there, but the drivers are different. And it’s not about getting one step up from the generation before. I don’t know if you’d agree, Jack, actually, I mean, I’m just drawing on my knowledge of to two sons and their their peers. Really?

Ashley Menzies 1:11:01
Yeah, no, I, I agree. I think it’s nuanced. Right. So I think that just getting to the next socio economic status ring is something that is important to millennials, I think financial security is important to millennials. But I do think, at what costs like I don’t think that millennials want. I have different friends. But I know that most people don’t want to grind it out. At a job, that is unfulfilling, to get financial security, everyone has read that happiness study by the Harvard, I believe it was Harvard Business School, but something out of Harvard where, you know, if you make a certain amount of money that’s going then there’s diminishing returns on happiness. And we have classes at all the top universities teaching happiness, because so many people have anxiety and depression. And so I think that what’s going on is people are seeing that the pursuit of money and success. And the way that we used to look at it is often associated with a negative wellbeing status. And so people want to be healthy, they want to be happy, they want to be fulfilled, and they also want financial security. But it doesn’t need to be at the cost of their humanity. And so I think that struggle is something that we’re having a lot of conversations about, and we’re trying all that’s why people are being creative to figure out how they can still attain that.

Leanne Elliott 1:12:34
Yeah, it isn’t. I grew up in business. And one thing I’m what I saw the other day, I’m called a geriatric millennial, which I found somewhat offensive. Just thing as you like, you know, you grew up in environments like you, you know, you go to school, you go to university, you get a job, you do this, and it against that in that moment, where something you think is this? Is this it? How do you feel about because there’s, there are some and I must admit, I’ve not I’ve not personally met one, but I see it in the news. And I see it in the media, and I see it online. You people, you know, older generations who say Gen Xer just don’t want to work, Gen Zed are lazy? Or how do you respond to that?

Isobel Reid 1:13:16
I would, I would respond by rebutting that completely. I would say that it’s not that we don’t want to work, we are more than capable, and more than happy and more than enthusiastic to be working. I think. Whilst there is so many grabs to our time, especially as an as I speak from my own experiences, especially in the startup scale industries, there’s so many jobs to do, and physically not enough time in the day. So I think the concept of working smarter, not harder, is quite relevant here. And the concept of work life balance, as well. I think that whilst whilst I’m a really hard worker personally, and whilst I see the people around me working really hard. I often don’t think that the hours you work equals the productivity or the impact or the output that you provide. Because during those hours, it’s not. It’s not as if you’re going to be productive all the time. Or it’s not as if you’re going to be doing your best work all the time. It’s I think there’s such a big push, especially with hybrid working or remote working to work as you work best or work where you work best. And coming back to that conversation of if you have deep thinking work to do do it at home, or even down to scheduling your day. your time watching your day in the times that you know that you function best, or you know that your brain functions best to do those deep thinking tasks, and then maybe add them in other times. So I think it’s a really big opportunity here for employees to lean into that remote working, or hybrid working and support their employees to really schedule their time and create the open communication about where they’re going to be what they’re going to be working on, what works best for them, and how it works best for them so they can support us support ourselves.

Leanne Elliott 1:15:44
Absolutely. I worry, we’ve all been a bit polite. Let’s it let’s get some some real talk what frustrates us about other other generations either either poor? Or down? What what things are kind of maybe get on our nerves? Carrie, can I come to you first?

Kari Cardinale. 1:16:03
Hmm. Well, I think one of the it’s like, not everybody gets on my nerves. But a concern that I see, I see a huge concern around the nuclear family and extended family being much more spread out with expanded generations. And that that’s creating a lot of tension on caregiving. For older adults that used to have multi generational households. So the aunties were around the grandmas were around the babies were around, and there was this ability to kind of shared care across the spectrum that’s gone now. And I just think we’re hitting a huge crisis of the boomers are getting older and the silent generation and they’re all alone. And then you have these millennials who are all alone can’t afford to buy a house, and we’ve lost some of that kind of simple, homey, I’ll be together take care of each other. So it’s become much more expensive for a millennial to buy their own house and then grandma to have to go into assisted living. And it’s just crazy. So that’s something that annoys me to some degree, or bothers me or worries me about the generations kind of creating these much more strated lifestyles, that can be really challenging when something happens with an illness or unexpected babies or ageing parents, I think is something we really have to put all of our heads together within the generations to to solve.

Leanne Elliott 1:17:38
Claire, is there anything that that bugs you?

Claire Farrow 1:17:41
Yeah, definitely. I’m happy not to be polite. I this communication, and we actually, I nearly mentioned this before, when we were talking about communication styles, and it’s like the Bite Size communication that I find hardest to kind of deal with, you know, don’t read emails properly. I do things on Slack, you know, or all these other channels. I’m like, I’m already doing stuff on this channel. Why should I, you know, use your channel? So I think, you know, none of this is insurmountable, obviously. But I do find that challenging, there are deaf, there’s definitely a difference in communication styles now. And I think, you know, it’s impacted the way that I communicate and not necessarily for the worse, you know, and perhaps more concise than I used to be and get to the point, but I find it sometimes even a bit rude, you know, if people don’t read my email properly, you know, don’t respond at all. That seems to be something that seems to be acceptable. So I think that that’s what I find hardest about the differences between different generations goes to younger generations. older generation that I think are wonderful. I love them.

Al Elliott 1:19:07
It’s funny, exactly. When I think that my dad thinks that the email replies I give to him his email are probably quite rude. The way that I would think that my nephew, who’s like 19 will go, okay. Yeah, I haven’t like, Oh, I’ve just spent 50 minutes writing this text. And so it’s probably as late as Gen watch generations through generations. You know, my dad still sends me emails going regards.

Leanne Elliott 1:19:36
How about you guys?

Ashley Menzies 1:19:38
Yeah, so I have story, but I just really quickly want to respond to Carrie’s point, because I really just love it. I agree just as far as your degenerations just being so spread out from one another and coming together. I’ve experienced that in my own life. And I feel really grateful. Like I went off to school and went to the East Coast. I’ve travelled a lot on all of these things, but I came back home, and it was very helpful. Being close to my grandmother before she passed away being close to my mother before she passed away, like I was able to really be present. And so it’s really changed my perspective. And I’m, you know, younger, I’m 33 as a millennial experiencing loss, not everybody experiences that. And so not everybody has the same perspective that I have now where I am working really hard to get all of my family in one place. And I don’t know if I would have thought of that that previously. But it is extremely important. And so that’s something that my husband and I are working towards. And, and I think that would, because we have had more choice and more opportunities, we’ve been able to move all around in different places. And so it does disconnect us from our family physically. And so it’s amazing to have this choice and opportunities and go off and do what you know what you’d like and pursue your dreams. But there’s this balancing act. So I love that you said that, because it’s something that has been top of mind for my family, and for me specifically love all generations. But one thing that is challenging is that when I try to explain my vision for the kind of workplace that I want to see, to leadership, they look at me sometimes like I’m crazy. And and even just the words I use, I remember using saying that I really want to centre our humanity, and I was pitching a specific proposal. And I remember someone said, What does that mean, and that’s going to be offensive to people. Of course, this is a humane workplace, you know, this is not going to go over well. And it was just really interesting, because a couple of months later, that language was everywhere in organisational psychology pieces, it was everywhere on LinkedIn. And I knew I had, like I had my hand on the pulse. I understood what the people wanted. But I felt shut down in my explanations and in my visions. And so and I knew that it was coming, you know, not from a bad place. But I did feel like sometimes it’s really hard to advocate for the vision that I see for the workplace. When I’m talking to the boomer generation,

Isobel Reid 1:22:18
I think I’ve seen a shift recently, I A in the way that specifically women will present themselves from a younger generation and not conform to the male stereotypes of a leader. And I’ve had this discussion with some of my friends who are also in corporate in the way that a lot of the female leaders they see have adopted this Bulldog black, approach ongoing after if it’s in relation to business development or moving at such a pace that doesn’t allow for learning and it doesn’t allow for mentorship and doesn’t allow for development and doesn’t allow for feedback. It’s just a constant moving towards the goal. And the goal is always in the tracking along in front of it, so you’ll never reach it. And I think that’s where I haven’t seen Gen Z Thrive has been in that environment where there’s little communication about where we’re going, there’s little communication about what the feedback is about the projects that you’ve just delivered, there’s little recognition. The recognition is such a key piece that I see younger people doing it more so than the older generation, and really impactful recognition, as well. I’m talking, when you see something that either aligns with the values of the company, or aligns with the values of the individual or that you respect someone doing, you see that you call it out. You bring it back to why it was so important that that was done and the impact that it had. And I think we could all get better in this space. But it’s been my experience that there is less of that in loaded generation, just because the values are less socialised. And the learning and development is less strong in that space around feedback, as well. Yeah.

Leanne Elliott 1:24:56
Any thoughts on that Carrie?

Kari Cardinale. 1:24:58
Yeah, just one Well, to extend vision to be a visionary millennial can be tricky, right? Standing in a level of competency and being willing to stick it out. And to your point being finger on the pulse of something that suddenly caught fire. Isn’t that classic? Like, sometimes it just takes a minute for an older generation to get it like they’re not first, they were not first on Facebook, they were not there on MySpace, like, it just takes a minute. And so like, how do we create patience and from both sides to really lean into the leadership, that I believe the millennial generation is bringing forward, huge, potent, powerful generation with a certain clarity of how life could and should be. And to give the boomers a minute to get out of that kind of fixed mindset. And lean in to a growth mindset. It takes a lot of curiosity, and trust to do so. And so I think that is very valid and important to figure out how to find that tenacity after that you created to keep going.

Ashley Menzies 1:26:12
Yeah, yeah. And they’re all listening. It just takes time. Like you said, the trusting curiosity. I think that’s spot on. Yeah, that

Leanne Elliott 1:26:22
leads me nicely to my final question, maybe to all of you, you know, I think everything we’ve talked about seems to come back to her. I guess the headline have, we all experienced the world slightly differently, but then we also seem to be experiencing exactly the same way. And communication seems to be playing a big part in, in this gap, perhaps in our understanding and empathy at times. What can we do to perhaps bridge the generational gaps, we’re seeing it at the moment and improve communication between different age groups.

Claire Farrow 1:26:51
But I love the idea of reverse mentoring, I think that’s, that’s fantastic. I think we should do every company should do it, every organisation should do it. And for me, it just comes back down to listening, really improving listening skills, and helping people training people in empathy, if they don’t have it already, naturally, being able to put yourself in other people’s shoes. And I think it’s that kind. Those are the skills that help transcend the differences between generations.

Kari Cardinale. 1:27:25
I could jump in at our work here at MBA, we partnered with an extraordinary social entrepreneur, who is a I think he’s a Gen X or like you, Claire, in a Michael head. And he created an initiative called death over dinner, which was using the dinner table as a place of social architecture, and bringing people together to have difficult conversations. And there’s a new initiative called generations over dinner, a dinner party challenge to bring as many generations as possible together over dinner, and they created a website where you can sign up and they will have topics and like a plan, like how to have a plan kind of dinner party with a few questions to pose and a challenge. Can you get five, six, even seven generations around the table? And then have everyone respond to a few questions. And I’ve participated in hosted a few and they were so magical, just the magic of sharing food, the simplicity of sitting together on a table, and really well curated questions, you didn’t have to think of yourself that people can easily lean into an answer. It just created something you kind of think about for days and days afterwards. And I think like those are the kinds of seeds like really creative way to plant a seed to just when we come together, and we see our humanity, everything takes care of itself from there. Yeah. Actually,

Ashley Menzies 1:28:55
yeah. So I love that I think that empathy is important, getting into the same room, and even just naming the topic, if you’re in a workplace environment, and you’re bringing in different generations, let’s have the discussion that we’re literally having right now, which has been so incredible. And really talk about our experiences, why we think the way we are thinking and from a general operational perspective, I do think we tried to do it from a dei perspective. We tried to do it from the industry, industry perspective, but it’s really cool to just come in and just talk about these things. And as far as empathy, I think it’s important to maybe think about the people in your life, who you’re close to who are of a different generation, and the empathy that you might have for that person and extend it to someone that you may not know in the workplace or outside of it. Think about it. You know, I remember just with celebrating my dad’s 65th birthday, with my home family, my cousins, and we’re joking, and my dad and my uncles didn’t understand half the jokes that we were saying, like there’s just sometimes there’s just a disconnect in that It’s okay. Use that same empathy that you have for your family and your loved ones for everyone else, because we’re all human, and we all deserve it.

Leanne Elliott 1:30:08
Is he? Is there anything that I haven’t asked you that perhaps I should have?

Unknown Speaker 1:30:13
I love that question.

Unknown Speaker 1:30:20
Think what I would love to speak to that I see as being a really important topic of conversation is at the moment how to engage Gen Z,

Isobel Reid 1:30:36
and how to engage Gen Z talent, specifically, who are entering the workforce, because the talent market is so strong at the moment. And there’s lots of people who, at this point in time, looking for roles looking for graduate roles typically, or have just been made redundant in the space, or who are on the lookout, I read a statistic. The other day that had said that, I think 70% of Gen Z are actively looking for work out in the workforce. So I think for employees or companies or people to be looking at in the market, I think it’s really, really important to, as I’ve said before, really socialise, the values and the goals and the mission and align employees to that. So on your job listing do include that, because it really does make a difference. I think, as well, I’ve seen a lot of job descriptions that contain the character of person that they want you to be. And I think that this could sometimes be problematic in that kind of space. Because we’re not looking for a culture fit, we’re looking for a culture, and we’re looking for someone to go above and beyond and stretch the boundaries of what they want to see and what is currently existing in the company. So I think that providing a summary of what you do, and maybe the competencies that relate directly to what you’ll do the functional strengths and knowledge that you need, is relevant, but also including a summary of people if they don’t actually meet all of the criteria. To still apply in life. The research shows that candidates from underrepresented backgrounds don’t apply for roles if they both meet all the criteria. And it is seen most populations of women that don’t meet the criteria don’t apply for the job. So I think a note on the bottom of the job listing about if you don’t apply that sorry, if you don’t meet all the criteria, and then a really big emphasis on the employee benefits are offered. And they think this is really where companies can go above and beyond about the learning opportunities, the wellness benefits, I’ve seen it done really, really well with some companies offering paid time off or offering a wellness depend for their employees. And I think also outlining the things like parental leave, and like domestic violence leave. If these are things that are on your policies, then they should also be on your job lessons, because I think it also says to prospective employers that these companies are open to women joining who may be in childbearing years, or who may be nearing the time where they want to have children or subs think about having children and previously, those women have been discriminated in the market. And there has been decisions hiring decisions made because those women have been pregnant or has been thinking about getting pregnant. So I think those types of things really weighed in diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives that I would be looking for in a company if I were on the market at the moment

Al Elliott 1:34:47
to do so interesting. Just listening to the different aspects and I’ve never seen a panel where we’ve had different people all on at the same time giving their opinions of different things and I definitely resonate a lot with Claire because she’s my generation. And, and yeah, and I think Isabel is just so interesting and learned so much about all the different generations I think.

Leanne Elliott 1:35:08
Yeah, yeah, me too. And I think as well i Yeah. And we everything kind of Ashley said resonated with me as particularly in terms of this kind of we know we were promised a dream we were told we could be whatever we wanted to and that’s not really happening and what Kerry said as well about, you know, the boomers being pioneers in terms of what this kind of, you know, older, mid life looks like now, I thought was really interesting. And I think the point is that, that Isabel ended on there in terms of how to engage and recruit Gen Zed. If you are struggling, she just gave you about 20 minutes worth of free consultancy there. So yeah, if Yeah, really, really great advice.

Al Elliott 1:35:44
Brilliant. So I think next week we are at the watercooler Where are we going to be doing the water?

Leanne Elliott 1:35:50
So we’re actually we’ve actually released this episode a little bit early. So all of our new friends at the watercooler on on the Tuesday what are the dates again 25th 26th of April, we’ll be able to listen to this this episode and get a flavour was always a good example of the things we talked about.

Al Elliott 1:36:08
So next week, the episode is is going to be all about the watercooler all the cool people we’ve met at the watercooler and Leon will have some exclusive interviews with some very impressive people. I think we’ve organised those. So make sure that make sure that you’re listening next week.