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102: 5 MORE Tips for a Happy Workplace from 5 MORE Workplace Experts

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Welcome to Episode 102 of the Truth, Lies & Work Podcast, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network.

In this episode, we continue on from episode 100 with five more expert tips from leading psychologists and researchers. These insights are designed to help you create a happier, more productive workplace. If you missed Part 1, make sure to catch up on Episode 100.

Featured Experts and Tips:

1. Prof. Sir Cary Cooper – Train Your Managers

Prof. Sir Cary Cooper emphasises the importance of training managers not just for their technical skills but also for their people skills. According to him, a significant issue in many organisations is promoting individuals based on technical prowess rather than their ability to manage people effectively.

Listen to Prof. Sir Cary Cooper: Episode 55 – How to Protect Financial Wellbeing

2. Dr. Craig Knight – Create Offices That Empower Performance

Dr. Craig Knight discusses the power struggle behind Return to Office (RTO) mandates and explains that creating office spaces that enhance employee performance and well-being. His research highlights the significant impact of an empowering office environment on creativity and productivity.

Listen to Dr. Craig Knight: Episode 43 – Is the Office Making a Comeback?

3. Christian Van Stolk – Personalisation Improves Outcomes

Christian Van Stolk shares findings from his research on employee behaviours and well-being in hybrid workplaces. He advocates for personalised approaches to management, highlighting that different employees have varying needs and work habits that impact their health and productivity.

Listen to Christian Van Stolk: Episode 24 – Britain’s Healthiest Workplaces

4. Dr. Audrey Tang – Well-being is the Responsibility of the Individual AND the Organisation

Dr. Audrey Tang stresses that well-being initiatives should not only focus on individual efforts but also require systemic changes within the organisation. Leaders play a crucial role in modelling and fostering a healthy work environment.

Listen to Dr. Audrey Tang: Episode 69 and 70 – How to Keep Calm Using Mindfulness

5. Catherine Garrod – Inclusion Requires Intention

Catherine Garrod flips the common conversation around DEI, advocating for ‘conscious inclusion.’ She emphasises the need for intentionality and data-driven strategies to create an inclusive workplace where everyone feels valued and heard.

Listen to Catherine Garrod: Episode 45 – DEI 101 for Leaders

If you haven’t listened to our first five tips, go back to Episode 100 where you’ll hear advice from Dr. Ryne Sherman, Prof. Nancy Doyle, Joe O’Connor, Isabel Berwick, and Bruce Daisley.

We’ll be back on Tuesday with another episode of This Week in Work.

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The Transcript

⚠️ NOTE: This is an automated transcript, so it might not always be 100% accurate!

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Leanne Elliott: Hello, and welcome to Truth, Lies, and Work, the award winning psychology podcast brought to you by who? Only the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne I’m a business psychologist.

Al Elliott: My name is Al, I’m a business owner. We are

Leanne Elliott: here to help you simplify the science of work.

What a

Al Elliott: fabulous introduction,

Leanne Elliott: Leigh. Why, thank you so much. You have told me 102 episodes in, I seem

Al Elliott: to be finding my groove. Yes, as Leigh Anne said, 102 episodes. That means 102 episodes, over 180 interviews with workplace culture experts. We picked out our top 10. 10 tips from our experts and researchers in the world of workplace psychology.

If you missed the first part, you need to spin back and listen to episode 100. Well, to be honest, you could do it the other way around. If you want to be,

Leanne Elliott: there’s no

Al Elliott: rules. You can do what you want. These are not your average influences. These are thought leaders at the very highest level.

Leanne Elliott: Yes. So in episode 100, we shared our first five tips for a happy workplace, and this is five more tips for a happy workplace because that’s the kind of people we are.

We’re always trying to give you more. Isn’t that right?

Al Elliott: Yes.

Leanne Elliott: But yes, the point is these, these people aren’t your average, your average thing. Thought leaders. These are exceptional world leading thought leaders. They are operating at the highest levels and they have been gracious enough to share their time and expertise with us and with you.

So with that in mind, let’s go and meet our first expert for this episode. None other than Professor Sir Kerry Cooper, who we spoke to back in episode 55, how to protect financial wellbeing. So Professor Sir Kerry Cooper is a psychology. He is recognized as a world leading expert on wellbeing. He’s written more than 250 books on the topic.

He is the 50th anniversary professor of organizational psychology and health at Alliance Manchester Business School. He is also the co founder of Robinson Cooper. A pioneering wellbeing consultancy. Professor Sir Kerry Cooper has almost as many awards as we have podcast episodes. He’s got more than 40 and most recently he has been ranked the fourth best business and management scientist in the world by research.

com. That was in April, 2024. He’s a big cheese. He’s a cheddar. His tip, his tip is timeless. His tip needs to be heard. If you do one thing, train your managers.

Prof Sir Cary Cooper: The problem we have is to do with line managers. What we tend to do in developed countries is we recruit and promote people to managerial roles based on their technical skills, not their people skills.

This is a very fundamental. Problem we have, which we haven’t directly tackled. You know, we look at, we look at somebody who’s a good marketeer. And we say, that guy’s great. He’s his sales are fantastic. Let’s make them a marketing manager. That teacher in a classroom is outstanding. So let’s make her, um, a head teacher, you know, with minimal amount of training, or even thinking about whether they’re competent enough to do it.

This is very fundamental. So what we need in the future. So these are, by the way, people who don’t have much EQ, not much emotional intelligence. They’re technically really good, great marketeer, great teacher, great social worker. Put them in a managerial role and they fail. And it’s because they might not have the people skills to put people together.

And now what do people skills mean? Social interpersonal skills, emotional intelligence, being able to empathize with your colleagues, understand, seeing their change of behavior, being socially sensitive. So you notice somebody is not the same. So, you know, I’ve noticed that. You know, Al usually is very ebullient, he’s in a meeting, he’s, you know, he’s participating like everybody else.

The last few weeks, he’s just quiet, totally withdrawn, and when he does come in, he’s very angry, very aggressive. Now, a good line manager recognizes a change of behavior, and that’s a line manager all the way from shop floor to top floor. This goes all the way up the system, anybody who’s in a managerial role.

Okay, so that person is more likely to be, to recognize symptoms in their subordinates and saying, putting armor on shoulder, Al, I’ve noticed for the last few weeks, maybe a month, maybe two months, you’ve been kind of withdrawn. Something’s troubling, isn’t it? I just feel it. Is it what’s wrong? And because he’s an open person, he or she is an open person, Al is more likely to respond.

And open up themselves because open people, open people who have these social skills are people who are prepared to admit their own vulnerabilities, which enables people are working with. To open up, that’s the way you do it. So in the future, what we need is we need to recruit or promote line managers where there’s parity between their people skills and their technical skills.

And here’s the problem we have, Al. The problem we have is because we don’t have enough of them. I mean, in the years I’m that old, which I can say, in all the years I’ve worked in organizations, I would say. And I had a university spinoff company manage University of Manchester spinoff company, Roberts and Cooper.

Our work was working with lots of big companies, organizations, hospitals, public private sector bodies. Okay. I would say that if I was giving an estimate, I’d say, if you looked at the managerial pool of most organizations, 40 percent of managers, wherever they are in the hierarchy, have these skills naturally.

You know, luckily they have the good people, social interpersonal skills. 40 percent are trainable. There is a problem that about 20 percent are untrainable. They shouldn’t be in a managerial role. They just have a personality that makes it difficult for you to train them. The more we recognize that. So the problem we have in most organizations, in my view, is we have to deal with the cohort we currently have the 40, 40, 20, 40 is fine.

No training needed 40 training, 20. Find another role for them, but take him away from people, whatever you do.

Al Elliott: Yeah, that Professor Sir Kerry Cooper, who unfortunately, I was ill on the day that his interview was on. So I did the interview. Leanne is yet to speak to one of her heroes, but if you’re listening, it’s promised.

You’ve promised Mr. Cooper, you’ve promised to come back on. Now, another prominent psychologist who had a lot to say about the importance of management was Dr. Craig Knight. And in particular, the power struggle that is behind this whole RTO, return to the office mandate. We spoke to Dr. Craig back in episode 43, was all about.

Is the office making a comeback? Dr. Craig is a chartered registered doctor of workplace psychology. After years of research into the psychology of office spaces at the university of Exeter, Dr. Craig launched identify realization limited, a specialist consultancy dedicated to improving wellbeing for all.

Satisfaction and productivity within the office. His work has been published across academic journals. He’s been featured by the BBC and the scientific American mind. Dr. Craig is definitely team office, but he did have some choice words for leaders behind the recent RTO mandates. His tip, if you want people back in the office, create a place that empowers their performance and their wellbeing.

Dr Craig Knight: You can trace offices back to the ancient pharaohs. Where scribes were the third most important people in the land. You had, obviously, the royal family first, then you had the priests, then you had the scribes. And even things like terms we use today, like cleric, for example, leads to the term clerical.

People keep reinventing the wheel and calling it the same thing, alright? Um, agile, flexible space, for example. Agile, flexible space dates Wedgwood in the 18th century. And we’re still reinventing it and calling it different things. People don’t talk about Taylorist spaces anymore, but to go back to the principle we’re talking about, of lean, which affects 70 percent of workspaces.

If, for example, you’ve got a clean desk policy, that’s a lean policy, right? So it affects 70 percent of offices. The five pillars of lean don’t come from Japanese manufacturing, where the statue would come from. They are taken precisely from Taylor, in writing his book in 1911. And the reason that it is Taylorist is because what happens is called Toyotism.

Toyota copied their ideas from Ford. Ford, Henry Ford, employed Taylor to set up his production processes. So, all of that, and of course, Toyota influenced what’s going on now in the workplace with Lean and Kaizen and all of these wonderful terminologies. So, this is the thing that has changed in over 20 years.

There’s nothing. The best opportunity we’ve got is post pandemic. And of course, what we see is lots of organizations panicking like hell because management is losing control and they’re calling people back to these old malfunctioning, discredited, suboptimal ways.

Leanne Elliott: Dr. Cray also shared some of the findings of his 20 year long research into the relationships between the work environment and creativity.

Dr Craig Knight: Our base point is always Lean Six Sigma. Alright, we started with that base point when we, when we began this research back in 2000, 2003. Okay, so we take that, and I’ll give you a quick example of what we might do. So, we’re sitting here, and I don’t know if you can see the whole list, there’s, there’s a can of drink.

Okay, so we’d say to people, in 90 seconds, tell me how many uses you can think of But this kind of drink and you might say, well, he uses a doorstop. You could crunch it up and use a weapon. You could use it as receptacle for flowers. You could use a kind of drink and so on. As many ideas you can think of in 90 seconds.

And what we find is we find that the increase in ideas that people think of can increase up to 60% Going from that lean space to where people are empowered and where they, for example, are empowered to use design as a submissive rather than a driving force. So that’s a big thing. Not only that, we look at how many discrete ideas groups think of.

Let’s say how everybody’s in a group of three, so everybody thinks of six ideas in that group, but the six ideas are different. So we might get three ideas overlap. And another six that don’t. So out of 12 ideas, 18 ideas, nine of them are discrete and unique. What we found is that the discrete ideas in the empowered condition were higher than the number of ideas in total in the Lean Six Sigma space.

So that was

Al Elliott: Dr. Craig Knight. He’s got the voice of this, one of those people you just want to listen to all day long, even if it was talking rubbish, I’d probably still listen to him, but he doesn’t.

Leanne Elliott: Does have a great voice, a really great, a soothing voice. It’s one of those. It’s a, it’s a, um, it’s a bedtime story on calm, isn’t it?

Al Elliott: Yes. So Dr. Knight, if you and I want to collaborate, I

Leanne Elliott: think I’ve made that joke before on the first episode. Shall we

Al Elliott: move on?

Leanne Elliott: Yes. Office versus remote versus hybrid has indeed been an ongoing debate in the world of work and has been, to be honest, some of our most popular episodes, including episode 24, Britain’s healthiest workplaces, where we met the 2023 award winners.

so much for joining us. During that episode, that is where we met Christian van Stolk. Christian is the researcher behind Britain’s Healthiest Workplace Survey, which informs the awards and is also the executive vice president at RAND Europe, a world leading research institute that uses evidence based insights to improve policy and decision making, including in the workplace.

place. He’s also an advisor to the World Bank and the UK government. Christian shared his pioneering research into employee behaviors and wellbeing in hybrid workplaces. His team looked at workplace behavior data collected by Microsoft applications for more than one third. Thousand UK based employees and how these behaviors impacted outcomes such as productivity, performance, and wellbeing.

His key finding was that different types of employees experience work slightly differently, which leads us to tip number three. Personalization improves outcomes.

Christian Van Stolk: The idea was really to look at certain types of work behaviors and then look at what the health and well being impacts of that work behavior would be.

So, for instance, you could say sending emails late in the evening is bad for health and well being, or you get up really early and you start working. That is bad for your health and well being, or being an excessive number of meetings during the day might be bad for your health and well being. These were the hypothesis that we were testing.

As it happens, um, in this research, what we showed is that there are really, um, different categories of workers. 1st of all, that’s important to think about. So, you know, even within an organization, there are a variety of different subcultures, and these workers typically like to work in slightly different ways.

And that’s interesting. And if you dig below that, there is no real, you know, Uniform type of work behaviors that leads to optimal health and well being outcomes. So what this means is really that there’s a high degree of personalization that is required within the workforce. So having a blanket ban on emails after seven or eight in the evening might seem like a good idea to achieve executive, but ultimately you probably, um, are sort of impacting negatively, uh, the, you know, a certain group of workers within your organization.

So that seems to, to me to push a lot of the restrictions. Responsibility down to line managers in terms of managing their staff effectively and, and trying to encourage, uh, work behaviors, uh, that lead to better health and wellbeing, and of course, understanding really what staff need as well. So that’s, that’s really what this study is about.

Leanne Elliott: If you are interested in reading the full research report, it is available on RAND Europe’s website, and I will leave a link in the show notes. It is definitely worth a read. So you might’ve noticed a thing. Well being and line management are very closely related. We actually get asked to speak on wellbeing from time to time.

We’re asked about burnout, we’re asked about specific challenges around men’s mental health, or even what interventions businesses can put in place to improve wellbeing in the workplace. And this is where we are really, really careful as consultants to distinguish between wellbeing at an individual level.

and an organizational level. And our next expert explains this perfectly.

Al Elliott: Dr. Audrey Tang is a long term friend and supporter of the show. We interviewed her most recently on episodes 69 and 70, how to keep calm using mindfulness. Dr. Audrey is a chartered psychologist and a mental health broadcaster with an award winning podcast and a community radio show at the Wellbeing Lounge.

She’s also a multi award winning business author with her three books, the leader’s guide to mindfulness, the leader’s guide to resilience, and the leader’s guide to wellbeing. These serve as a practical guide to building and maintaining mental fitness. Her expert tip. Remember, wellbeing is the responsibility of the individual and the organization.

And as a leader, that means prioritizing your own mental health too.

Dr Audrey Tang: Whenever people go off sick with. Stress, burnout, rust out, all of those mental health issues. What happens is organizations up their well being interventions. They bring me in. They do lunchtime yoga. They get things like gym cards or restaurant cards and so on.

It’s all about the individual. However, if I were to go to work and fall down a hole, health and safety would not give me lessons on how to walk around a hole. They would not bring in training about how to get out of a hole. They would fix the hole. And this is the whole point that wellbeing interventions, wellbeing incentives, which aren’t quite as good as interventions and approaches to wellbeing.

They really focus on the individual, but what we need to be looking at is the system and the causes of the stress in the same way as you would take a health and safety practical approach to stopping the causes of physical injury. Interventions for the individual are only half the answer. Systemic change is the other half.

And Karen Scholes has actually been doing a lot of research in this area. It’s very recent. It’s on the psychological safety, sorry, psychosocial safety climate. And the psychosocial safety climate is taking a health and safety approach to psychological issues. It looks for the causes. of the stress in the first place, rather than being quite reactive and saying, oh, well, individuals are not coping, so let’s build up their emotional and mental fitness, which is all very important and all very useful.

But as I say, it’s only half the story. The other half has to be tackling. the causes of the stress in the first place. Well, business leaders need to invest in their own mental health because actually they’re role modeling their behavior to everybody else. If you as a business leader are going around saying, Oh, well, we care about your wellbeing, but perhaps you’re actually burning the candle at both ends, or perhaps your actions aren’t matching up with what you’re saying.

That can be very problematic for everybody else. Organizations are quite organic in the way that they. And they can often teams can often take on the personality of the leader. If a team is very, very stressed, very snappy, it’s creating a toxic environment. We do kind of have to look a little bit further up and see what are the demands coming downwards.

So the leader is well placed to understand their own emotional demands and what they’re placing on everybody else. To some extent, and therefore need to role model their own looking after their own health. However, the other reason why leaders need to invest is because they are in the position to make changes.

They’re also in the position to recognize when something’s going wrong. Because so often, we go to the workplace and we Do everything. We work hard. We, we wanna get praise, we wanna do well, we wanna, um, improve ourselves and we might be pushing ourselves to the point where we’re struggling to cope. And when you are in the situation, you can’t see it.

And you also may not know where you can reach out to help. So the leader has an extra responsibility. To recognize and put in not only ways to perhaps change the reasons for that stress in the first place, but to support that individual who’s going through all of those issues.

Leanne Elliott: We will leave all the links to check out Dr.

Audrey’s content in the show notes. It really is brilliant. It’s so lighthearted, accessible. It’s, it’s binge worthy, her content. So definitely check it out. We have talked about line managers. We have talked about remote versus the office. We have talked about wellbeing. They have certainly been recurring themes over the last 100 episodes.

And there is one more that has been working its way up the priority list at last, and that is diversity, equity, and inclusion. We do discuss DEI on the show quite frequently, but I want to take you back to episode 45, DEI 101 for Leaders, where we met Catherine Garrid. Catherine is an EDI consultant, speaker, and author.

Her best selling debut book, Conscious Inclusion, helps organizations do EDI one step at a time. And it genuinely is one of the most engaging and practical EDI resources I’ve ever come across. You also may have heard of Catherine from her corporate career. She was with PepsiCo before she progressed to head of inclusion at Sky, a business she transformed to become number one on the inclusive top 50 list.

Catherine has really flipped common conversations around DEI on their head, shifting from unconscious bias to what she calls conscious inclusion. Her tip, inclusion requires intention.

Catherine Garrod: So inclusion for me is the important word, whether you use EDI or D& I or whatever, inclusion is the important word. So inclusion is, you know, as human beings, I think it’s universal, right?

We want to be valued, we want to be heard, we want to be involved. And that for me is the essence of inclusion. So whether you’re with your mates, So your family or, you know, the local sports club or you’re at work, like people want to be included. They don’t want to turn up and feel awkward and feel out of place.

So that’s just the universal thing that applies across every demographics. Inclusion is a really important word for me. And then the conscious bit is because over 90 percent of our decisions that we make in a day are automatic. Our brains are these incredible machines, helping us navigate busy lives all the time, based on data and information that it has from before.

So who we know, what we trust, what we’ve tried. And it’s as simple as yes or no, dangerous or safe, eat it, don’t eat it, watch another episode, go to bed early, et cetera, et cetera. Our brains are just making loads of these decisions all the time. Brilliant. And that’s fine because it’s about our own personal, individual experience in those circumstances.

But when you’re making decisions for an organization that are going to impact lots of people, that automatic thinking is flawed with bias because it is really heavily influenced by your own personal experience. And if you come back to the fact that there’s 8 billion people on the planet, one person is never going to be able to be confident in making a good and inclusive decision.

for lots of people. So you need to shift your mind into that five or ten percent thinking which is conscious when you’re making decisions about people and that’s really the essence of the whole book. There was an amazing visual in an HBR article recently and it had loads of people on a tennis court all hitting balls in different directions and it was kind of quite chaotic.

What I usually find when I turn up to the organizations I work with is they’ve got lots of really passionate people doing lots of wonderful things, but they’re all pointing in different directions and it doesn’t add up to an overall output. So the biggest thing I find with organizations, and by the way, that’s a really good problem to have.

Because if you’ve already got people who are committed and engaged and wanting to make a difference and actually providing a little bit of framework and guidance around what direction to travel in and how you can track success, makes it just much easier for all of those people to be successful. So I think, um, kind of busy being busy is the misconception.

You know, we do lots of comms, we do lots of events, we’ve updated some policies, we’ve introduced this, we’ve done that, all great stuff. But if you haven’t got an overarching ambition and you’re able to track that effectively and understand what people’s experiences are and whether they’re good or not, and close the gaps, if you’ve got gaps in experience between demographics, then you’re only going to get so far.

You’re, you’re, you’re, Your plan or your strategy just isn’t ever really going to reach maturity. I think it’s really about you have to set out what your ambition is. What is it that you’re trying to do? And I think really simply, it is creating a good experience for everyone. Now that’s simple to say, but the other bit that organizations quite often I find they don’t have is really good use of data.

So whatever your success measures are, whether it is an internal engagement survey for employees, what you’re looking at, Promotions or you’re looking at who gets the recognition awards or if it’s something external and you’re looking at customer satisfaction or you’re perhaps looking at retention or you’re looking at who’s accessing your services.

Most often what I find is organizations are looking at those things as a kind of holistic overview look of the total population. Whereas actually, if you can invest in your data insight capability and break some of those numbers down, you’ll really find out whether or not your organization is inclusive.

So an example of that, let’s take a customer satisfaction score. You know, if most of your kind of scores are 80, 90%, you think, well, that’s pretty good. Pretty good. But if you break that down and the largest population are 85 percent but your smaller populations are perhaps only 67 or 69, but they’re being masked because of the relative weighting of the largest population.

Then you can really be specific about your actions and where you want to focus your energy to improve the experience for the smaller populations to bring it up to the same standard.

Leanne Elliott: Again, we will leave a link to all of Catherine’s socials and her book in the show notes. If DI is part of your job, Or you want to learn more.

I cannot recommend her book, Conscious Inclusion, enough. So there we go. That is a wrap. Five more tips to create a happy workplace from five workplace experts. To recap, number one, Professor Sir Kerry Cooper. Have we got the message yet guys? Train your managers.

Al Elliott: Number two, Dr. Craig Knight. If you want people back in the office.

Create a place where they want to be.

Leanne Elliott: Yes. And number three, Christian van Stolk. That is no one size fits all approach. Individualization improves outcomes.

Al Elliott: Number four, Dr. Audrey Tang. Well being is the responsibility of the individual and the organization and leaders, that means taking care of your own well being too.

Leanne Elliott: And finally, Katherine Garrard, inclusion requires intention. You do need a strategy.

Al Elliott: If you haven’t listened to episode 100, where we had our first five tips, just go back. You’re going to hear some incredible advice from psychologist, Dr. Ryan Sherman, neurodiversity expert, Professor Nancy Doyle, Joe O’Connor of the four day workweek fame, Financial Times journalist, Isabel Berwick, and best selling author, Bruce Daisley.

Leanne Elliott: Do go and check it out. And we’ll be back Next Tuesday. Well, we’re back next Thursday. We’re back on Tuesday, this Tuesday, not next Tuesday, this Tuesday. We’re

Al Elliott: back on Tuesday and Thursday, every Tuesday, every Thursday.

Leanne Elliott: But on this Tuesday, we’ll be back with another episode of This Week in Work, where we share some articles that caught our eye, some hot topics that we’re discussing, and of course, our weekly workplace surgery.

Al Elliott: I normally say that bit. I noticed you nearly stumbled on that.

Leanne Elliott: think about that. A lot of W’s in there.

Al Elliott: I call it the world famous weekly workplace surgery, which is even more difficult to say. Anyway, if you have, um, if you have a, if you’ve seen an article that you think that we should have a chat about, then check out the show notes.

There’s ways to get in touch. And if you’ve got a question for Leanne, then as ever, just check out the show notes. There’s a way you can email us. And I will put that question to Leanne. If you haven’t yet subscribed, what’s wrong with you? You need to subscribe. This is, your life will be immeasurably better when you click that subscribe button.

There’s only one way you can make it better than immeasurably, and that is to leave us a review, and then you are guaranteed into the kingdom of heaven, or whatever you believe in, that is guaranteed. You could, you could tell them that I sent you.

Leanne Elliott: Yes, do subscribe, leave a review. It’s the best way to support the show.

I’m not sure about that, that whole eternal extra life thing, but who knows? We’ll find out one day. We’ll see you next week.

Al Elliott: Bye bye.

Leanne Elliott: You may also have well, you may also have heard of Catherine before she You may, well, you also may have heard from I

Al Elliott: almost laughed when you kept getting it wrong and you’re getting it right and I was like, please don’t laugh because it’s rude, it should be so angry. Yeah, that was Professor Sakari Cooper, um, who, Cary, isn’t it?

But that doesn’t mean that he’s not had some se Mmm. His tip, if you want people to come back in the office, create a place that empowers their import His tip, if you want people back in the office, create a place that empowers their import His tip, if you wanna play His tip, for f ‘s sake.

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