54: How Putting People First Fuels Business Growth

In this episode, we’re diving deep into a groundbreaking concept that’s reshaping the way we approach workspaces and business success. Join us as we explore “The Human-Centric Revolution: How Putting People First Fuels Business Growth.”

🌟 Episode Highlights:

• Embracing a Paradigm Shift: The corporate landscape is evolving, and it’s time to put the spotlight on people. Our special guests are experts in the field of human-centric workplaces, each offering unique insights into why this approach is the game-changer businesses have been waiting for.

• Pillars of Human-Centric Workplaces: Intentional collaboration, flexible work experiences, and empathic management are the cornerstones of this revolution. Our guests delve into these pillars, sharing real-world examples and success stories that highlight the transformational impact they can have.

• Fostering Innovation and Growth: Learn how a people-centered approach isn’t just about employee satisfaction; it’s about driving business growth. Discover how intentional collaboration sparks creativity, how flexible work experiences boost productivity, and how empathic management creates a thriving company culture.

🎙️ Featured Guests:

Catherine de la Poer

Catherine de la Poer is a leadership coach and expert in emotional intelligence. She founded her consultancy Halcyon in 2017 and is also an adjunct professor at Hult International School of Business.

Stacy Thomson

Stacy is a qualified mental health practitioner and the founder and CEO of The Performance Club, a mental wealth consultancy.

Mel Murphy

Mel Murphy is Senior People Manager at Birdie, a Home healthcare technology company that operates across the UK and Europe.

🎧 Tune in to hear firsthand accounts of businesses that have successfully embraced the human-centric revolution. Discover how this approach isn’t just shaping work environments, but also propelling companies to new heights of success. It’s time to join the movement and put people at the heart of your business strategy.

Listen now to “The Human-Centric Revolution: How Putting People First Fuels Business Growth” and take the first step towards reshaping your workplace culture for unprecedented success!

Resources

Connect with Catherine:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherine-de-la-poer/

Connect with Stacy:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stacythomson/

Connect with Mel:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melissamurphy11/

Connect with your hosts

• Connect with Al on LinkedIn 
• Connect with Leanne on LinkedIn
• Join the discussion about this episode on LinkedIn
• Email: podcast@TruthLiesandWork.com
• Follow us on Instagram @truthlieswork
• Chat with us on Twitter @truthlieswork
• YouTube channel for the podcast @TruthLiesWork
• Check us out on TikTok (LOL!!!) @truthlieswork

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The Transcript

⚠️ NOTE: This is an automated transcript, so it might not always be 100% accurate!

Speaker 1 0:00
A lot of the work of a really good people team is identifying what’s needed and what we can what we can create for people.

Leanne Elliott 0:14
Hello, and welcome to the truth lies and workplace culture podcast, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne. I’m a Business psychologist. My Name Is Earl and I’m a business owner. And we are here to help you simplify the science of people and create amazing workplace coaches.

Al Elliott 0:32
Yeah, and if you’re joining us on YouTube, you’ll notice there’s yet another different background us because we are now in in mosta. In Bosnia and Herzegovina, one of our favorite countries, it’s just an incredible place. And not only because a bag of ice is like, a Quaid for like three kilos but but also just beautiful people, beautiful countryside and just a wonderful place, isn’t it? Yeah, we’re

Leanne Elliott 0:53
having a lovely time. Hey, it’s very much feels like home. But this will be our setup for for a few episodes. Now. I think we’re into it.

Al Elliott 1:02
Yeah, we should be in this house for about for about four weeks. And then we’re looking for somewhere hopefully for a year. So you’ll be we’ll be coming to you from BH for hopefully a years, a long year.

Leanne Elliott 1:12
Today we are talking about human centered workplaces.

Al Elliott 1:18
Yeah. Now this is the one of the last episodes we’ve got with our water because some of our water cooler guests, we’ve also got some other people on there as well. And we wanted to we wanted to group these all together, because although they are very different guests with kind of different backgrounds and different job titles. They felt that this was a good theme. And also there’s so much stuff around human centric workplaces at the moment isn’t really.

Leanne Elliott 1:41
Yeah, it just seemed to be a phrase that seems to have popped up and really gained momentum whether you say human centered workplaces, human centric workplaces, they both basically mean that we design work around humans, not around the work or the jobs. So we have three awesome experts will help us dive into that today.

Al Elliott 2:00
So before we do that, it’s our team’s favorite time of the week. This news roundup

Leanne Elliott 2:05
cue the jingle.

Al Elliott 2:08
What have you got Lee?

Leanne Elliott 2:09
Well, I have a word of the week. Word of the Week look. Career cushioning.

Al Elliott 2:16
Oh, career cushioning you normally asked me what what I think it is I do. Now was actually I don’t obviously I don’t see these beforehand. So I’m just genuinely guessing career cushioning, I would think is something like maybe you have a particularly strenuous project or job or role for a bit, then you might take a little bit of a slack time. And then you go back into another one. So if you’re a sort of a type A personality, you might be like full on for three months. And then you might take a month off to go and do something which still work but perhaps a little bit easier. That cushy, cushy, that’s that’s where I was going. That’s the cushy side of it. Yeah, no.

Speaker 2 2:54
I like that though. I like that. Now, the idea of career cushioning is basically you look for you basically keep your eyes and ears open. For any jobs that might be of interest or might be suitable for you whilst you’re already in employment. The idea is, it’s kind of having a plan B in case you’re hit by redundancy or job insecurity or something happens in your workplace. It’s basically just making sure you’re not putting all your eggs in one basket. And that has been termed career cushioning.

Al Elliott 3:25
That makes sense. So I mean, someone once told me that he’s like, You should act like a monkey never let go of one branch and take a hold of another. So you’re kind of doing the similar sort of thing in the you’re just, you’re just looking out for stuff that will be really good. And you don’t want to let go of your current position until you’ve actually got a new position. Is that it? Or you’re just actually just actively looking out for new new roles?

Speaker 2 3:44
Just yeah, I guess you’re kind of you know, you’ve heard of like Quiet, quiet hiring where organizations don’t necessarily advertise jobs, but they’ll keep a lookout for people is a similar thing, but in reverse. So you’re not necessarily I want to leave my job now or I will lose my leave my job as soon as I find another one. It’s more a case of just keeping options open. Keeping a lookout keeping your LinkedIn updated, keeping your network up to date, having conversations, keeping relationships going with recruiters. I think it’s smart. There are some people that are questioning the the ethical nature of this to look for another job whilst you are in employment and an arguably happily in employment. I don’t see the issue. I think I think it’s so unpredictable, the economy that we’re in right now and have been for the past 1015 years. I think anything can happen in terms of redundancies, I think any successful person is usually quite strategic over their career moves and that will mean not always keeping that eye out for that next possible position. I think in terms of an organization or if you’re having these, these is really robust conversations around professional development your people, you’ll know fine. Well, if you are an organization that can cater for their future needs, and if not So how do we make sure that we’re supporting that person in the long term? Because ultimately what was there? I know it sounds cliche, but I think that Richard Branson quote is really, really bang on you know, treat people or is it train people so they can leave treat people so they weren’t. And I think that’s I think that’s the, the ethos I would always go down is you know, people want to develop, they’re going to leave at some point if we can’t provide those opportunities. So yeah, career cushioning. I think I think it’s smart.

Al Elliott 5:29
To his sounds good. What else you got late?

Leanne Elliott 5:31
Oh, well, a little little story, talking about career cushioning and why it’s important in this unstable unstable economy. Wilkinsons, the UK discount chain out Have you heard? I did unfortunately. Yeah, they are in a bit of a pickle. So as of the 10th of August, they did collapse into administration putting 400 jobs, sorry foreign shops and 12,000 jobs at risk. It’s really sad 90 year the Wilcos has been going if you haven’t heard of Wilkinsons on North American listeners or Australian listeners how would you describe it our welkeys

Al Elliott 6:07
I suppose like a price target we’ve been told that target is kind of like just general like a Walmart but not without so Wilcox doesn’t really do food. It’ll do things like you can go and buy foil or you can go and buy toilet roll, you can go and buy cable ties you can go and buy shampoo. It’s just this discount store and I’m guessing what they did in the past was make deals with certain blood like much like Costco does make deals buy in bulk and they can sell it a little bit cheaper. It’s it’s always had that kind of a strange place in our hearts as Brits because it’s not somewhere where you’d necessarily want to be seen shopping. Like you know, I think a lot of people will go to Wilkinson and take a different bag of Sainsbury’s carry a bag or like a different supermarket carry a bag to put their stuff in because I don’t want to be seen that they’ve been shopping and Wilcos To be honest, most if you ever go to a park in the UK, and you find someone weird sitting on a bench drinking cider at nine in the morning, there’s a good chance they’ve got a Wilkinsons carry a bag next to them with all that stuff in it.

Speaker 2 7:07
Yeah, yeah, so that fair? That’s fair. But yeah, it’s sad. I regret almost 200 years of trading 12,000 jobs at risk. What was really cool about this story, though, it’s still ongoing. Currently, rescue efforts are still ongoing for finding a buyer to save Wilkinson and its staff. In the meantime, there we’ve had lots of other organizations retailers such as similar some I guess what you’d call competitors. If you’d like b&m Poundland actually post on LinkedIn and offer support and potential jobs to any staff that are at risk as well. Of course a savvy move because you know, if you look at for staff, you’ve got a lot of qualified people about to pop out onto the job market, but equally I thought it was quite nice sentiment, you know, if all these people are at risk and starting to worry just to have a couple of companies come out, connect with people directly on LinkedIn and say get in touch we might be able to find something for you. I thought that was quite nice. As it stands, nobody has been made redundant from Wilkinsons rescue efforts as I mentioned are continuing so we’ll we’ll see what happens but yeah, I’m sure very very nervous and uncomfortable time for for those many many people that are currently waiting to see what happens

Al Elliott 8:15
as it from a business point of view I’m always a little bit not skeptical but concerned about a business that is very low margin works on high volume low margin. The Costco obviously you’re doing well but Walmart I think Sam’s Club which is part of Walmart’s like their Costco is equivalent. And it’s and that’s that’s low margin high volume. I always feel it’s a bit risky. So if you are in that job, then perhaps you want to be doing a little bit of Korea cushioning just to have a little look around. How about that for a year. Very,

Leanne Elliott 8:44
very nice. What else you got? Well, you will remember from not too long was it last week? I feel like my weeks are rolling into was it last week we talked about no his birthday last week, wasn’t it?

Al Elliott 8:55
I have no I know what I’m Yes. No, I think birthday was two weeks ago. But anyway, it was in the last two weeks.

Leanne Elliott 9:01
At some point this month, we did an episode on psychology of happiness. August is blasted for ages, hasn’t it?

Al Elliott 9:07
I know. It’s weird, isn’t it?

Leanne Elliott 9:09
So yeah. That’s the psychology of happiness episode. after that. I got reflecting and started to wonder, I wonder what my network would say to the question it should leaders be responsible for employee happiness. If you haven’t listened to episode if you can’t remember our stance on it, go back and listen. So I did a little poll. I did a poll on LinkedIn. So I asked people exactly that are leaders responsible for the happiness of their employees? The poll was not conclusive. I’ll tell you that. I think we had about a third of people say yes, a third of people say no and a third of people say other. So it doesn’t seem to be much consensus on that. I can’t see who voted for what. But I did ask people to leave a comment to explain the answer that they gave. And I thought there were some very insightful people that I thought would maybe share some of some of those comments. Lovely Yeah, so if I’m looking this way, it’s because I’m reading the comments. So excuse me. But yeah, so our first comment for us was from Danielle wood. Danielle is a highly experienced HR professional consultant and coach that specializes in creating inclusive workplaces. She said, I think that happiness is a state that comes and goes like the seasons. If you don’t experience the others you don’t appreciate when it’s good. I think rather than being responsible for happiness, the leader is responsible for creating a psychologically safe space where people feel included, have purpose, have clarity, of opportunities for personal growth, and have the tools and support to achieve things. In doing this people can flourish, build meaningful relationships, feel empowered to fulfill potential, and feel they are really seen and heard. All of this culminates in a strong sense of well being, and moments of happiness.

Al Elliott 10:53
Lovely. Well said, Danielle. Well, well said, What is it Dolly Parton. He says, If you want the rainbow, you’ve got to put up with the rain. I think that’s that’s, that is to me. That’s the whole point of happiness is the happiness is an elevated state to you’ve got to have both you’ve got to have on happiness and happiness, because otherwise happiness just becomes the norm. And then you’re searching for and then you become one of those weird people who are just searching, always searching for the next thing that’s going to make them happy. So no, well, yeah, well said,

Leanne Elliott 11:20
Toby, I thought I saw the mic drop moment from Danielle there. We also have a comment from Haley Reese. Haley is a content marketer and works very closely with Bernard Brogan. He was on a founder series not too long ago, Haley said I think ultimately our happiness is our responsibility. But leaders, managers and work in general has a massive impact on our lives. So I don’t think it’s a leadership responsibility. But employee happiness is a priority for all great

Al Elliott 11:48
leaders. Nice, nice.

Leanne Elliott 11:51
Yeah, I quite liked that as well. I quite liked that it was a case of ultimately, it’s our responsibility. But let’s not let’s not forget the impact that our leaders and managers can have on our on our mood and on our happiness. So yeah, and I liked that great leaders will take that in as a priority. And finally, I have a comment from Jordan Wilcock, who is police detective at Greater Manchester Police. I thought this summed up everything really beautifully. He said leaders shouldn’t be responsible for employee happiness, but they are most certainly responsible for employee unhappiness. Oh, nice.

Al Elliott 12:28
Nice. Well put your notes fantastic.

Leanne Elliott 12:33
Yeah, brilliant, brilliantly summarized there. Thank you so much. Thank you to everybody that voted. Everybody that commented. Maybe we’ll do that. Do that again in the future.

Al Elliott 12:40
Lovely. Lovely. So have we got anything else we’re gonna talk about before we jump into our guests?

Leanne Elliott 12:46
No, that’s me. So in this episode, we are talking about human centric workplaces. And we have three awesome guests who are joining us to help us do that. And specifically talk through the three main traits or characteristics of a human centered workplace.

Al Elliott 13:02
Okay, so first of all, we’ve got Katherine della power. I think he’s gonna pull out. I’m sure Katherine will tell us if we get that wrong. She’s a leadership coach and an expert in emotional intelligence. She founded her consultancy back in 2017, called Halcyon cool name. I like that. And she’s also an adjunct professor at Hult International School of Business. So here’s Catherine,

Speaker 4 13:24
I work with individuals with teams, particularly lots of teaming work right now, and organizations to create healthy human systems at work.

Leanne Elliott 13:34
Our second guest is Stacy Thompson. Stacy is a qualified mental health practitioner and the founder and CEO of the performance club, a mental wealth consultancy.

Speaker 5 13:46
Yeah, my name is Stacy. I, my background is I’m a mental health nurse. And I did a an MSc in Organizational Psychology. But also, I’m the founder of the performance club. So do a bit of performance coaching, bit of training, but also around the minds at work network for a while. And I’m also an advisory board of Mad World and the watercooler and finally,

Al Elliott 14:05
Mel Murphy, who is the senior people manager at a company called birdie, really interesting company, by the way, go and have a look at them. It’s a home healthcare technology company that operates in UK in Europe and is growing phenomenally fast. So here’s Mel explaining what birdie does.

Speaker 1 14:21
30 is a tech startup on the mission to solve the social care crisis. We’ve created an app that is essentially a communication pathway between visiting carers and the loved ones of older adults and that way, kind of working towards making sure that older adults can age with confidence and an age in their own homes rather than in nursing homes or, or hospital where the prognosis isn’t isn’t so good.

Al Elliott 14:49
So shall we start with the burning question that I’ve got even though I wrote the title for this is what is a human centric workplace?

Speaker 2 14:57
It is a good question and a good place to start. ally like how you strict this episode The the important questions up front, we Yes, human centered workplace, it’s an extension really in terms of the term of human centered design, which is what I understand to be a problem solving technique that basically puts people at the center of it. And the final five steps of that, if you’re interested, is to empathize, define ideate, prototype and test. So an extension of those types of ideas. So human centric workplace is one that revolves around its people, and really will consider their specific needs. As I said, it’s about the human and the person rather than necessarily the work. So using human centered design to craft our workplaces, it probably won’t come as too much of a surprise, that really, that’s going to be very much based on asking our people what they need, what to get, you know, that empathic concern, what is going to make their jobs easier, understanding their pain points, and designing our workplace to meet needs, and remove pains. It could also be called an employee centric workplace or a people first workplace. So while this isn’t necessarily a term that psychologists have necessarily come up with, I think it’s really stemmed from more

Leanne Elliott 16:13
management and business in general in terms of theory and practice, rather than psychology. With that in mind, I would I probably wouldn’t call it necessarily a type of culture, but more philosophy that was sit behind leadership and organizational development. I think psychology is maybe more likely to talk about psychologically healthy workplaces, or empathic workplaces. So different terms, but very much the same principles, ultimately about making work rewarding, making it meaningful, and preventing psychological harm.

Al Elliott 16:49
So as always, I’m gonna ask the question, sounds lovely, but is there a business case for this?

Leanne Elliott 16:55
Yeah, well, it’s, you know, as we’ve talked a lot about culture before, I’m putting people at the heart of culture and the benefits that come with that in terms of specific research that’s done around human centric work models. Research by Gartner has shown that when people are seen as people and not just resources, they are 3.8 times more likely to be high performing. They’re also 3.2 times more likely to stay within their job, and 1.3 times more likely to see at lower levels of fatigue, so much higher levels of resilience there. So Gartner’s research, went on to identify the three pillars of a human centric workplace. And these three are what we’re going to talk about today. They are intentional collaboration, flexible work experiences, and empathy based management.

Al Elliott 17:43
You I think regular listeners will know that I’m always looking for like this Leanne’s like, this is the perfect this is what is the nice to have, I’m always looking for the business case behind it. We have all of our guests have got massive experience in this in this field. And they all talk like very realistically and practically about these kinds of steps. So shall we kick off with the first one? Yes. So

Leanne Elliott 18:04
the first pillar of a human centric workplace is intentional collaboration, intention. I think intention is the word of 2023. It seems to come up and represented not just from us, from our from our guests as well. So this is really about intentionality of thinking you’re you’re you’re actively working to establish a human centric workplace being intentional about designing a workplace for humans, and for creative creativity, and collaboration. Let’s hear more from Catherine,

Speaker 4 18:37
as we start putting in place measures for what it means to be human at work. As we start to think about what does it mean to be a high performance organization, we have to start looking at the psychology of human beings to really understand what that what that means. And that is about obviously, physical health. Very, very important. Mental Health. And this is the mind body connection, we’re starting to learn so much more about that, that actually the two things are completely interconnected. And then, you know, we all also have a sort of metaphysical life a spiritual life, which is why actually understanding ourselves through the lens of the arts through creativity,

Al Elliott 19:28
that was Catherine Dilla, poet from Halcyon. being intentional about your work environments, thinking about the humans is no longer about trying to get the most out of your employees. As Stacey explains,

Speaker 5 19:40
organizations now need to think about how do we lean into human behavior? How do we lean into the human condition? How do we help our employees emotionally manage themselves better become more mentally agile? Think about cognitive flexibility. I love teaching the concept of the corporate app. V, which is all about, you know, you see athletes who literally spend hours and hours and hours training for one off event where they’re then going to be measured for their success, right. Whereas us as executives, we spend all of our hours performing on what we’re going to be measured about, and literally basic 10% on practicing, which is silly. And it’s interesting because when you teach it, even the human, the employee really struggled with the concept because we’ve got so addicted or so entrenched in this belief that, you know, working harder produces more when actually it’s about working better in a healthier way, in the in the view that you know, the energy that you give out, you must also take back it, because your body needs to be able to perform at its very best. And it can’t do that, if you’re just depleting it all the time have lots of energy.

Leanne Elliott 20:55
intentionality isn’t just about strategy there, it’s about being very clear about what solves a problem from the perspective of your employees. This is very much that adult to adult conversation. And you know, the word for that regular listeners that is called employee voice. Birdie were very intentional and using employee voice when it came to putting together their benefits packages. Let’s hear more on that from Mel Murphy, a birdie.

Speaker 1 21:22
And our values aren’t necessarily to offer the best benefits package, but to offer the most sustainable benefits package. So to make sure that what we’re delivering is actually what people need. I think this is the thing when we when we talk about well being there are so many products and so many really well intentioned offerings out there, that a lot of the work of a really good people team is identifying what’s needed, and what we can, what we can create for people. And a lot of that work happens before you before you adopt a product or a platform, a lot of that work happens in creating psychological safety and developing your ways of working so that they support flexibility and support people being their whole selves at work.

Al Elliott 22:04
If you’ve ever met Stacey Thompson, you’ll find that she’s larger than life, she’s got boundless energy, and it won’t surprise you to hear that Stacy also thinks we should be intentional in our lives as well.

Speaker 5 22:13
We really need to be more intentional. As a as a society, I’m not talking just about employers, I’m talking about as human beings, we need to stop getting carried away by all of these things that have been put into the world to make other people money, but to get us addicted to it. Because those are and they’re harmful for us for our longevity. If I look at sustainability of the human, as us as humans, you know, if I think if we can’t carry on on the current trajectory, you know, that doesn’t look very good in my eyes, you know, so just reinforces like I say, Why am I on this planet? You know, I think I’m on this planet to help others to create a great change for great amount of people. And all of this stuff just reinforces that. Yeah, what I’m doing is right.

Al Elliott 23:03
So Stacy really gets to the heart of intentional collaboration here. She means she says it’s about discussing and making decisions for the long term benefit of us all. Now intention to be human centric starts with a company and its leadership. And that intention needs to be shared with its employees. So once we decided we’re going to be intentional about human centric, we now need to be a lot more intentional about our mission and our purpose. What’s the reason that people come to work for us, birdy have always been very intentional by outlining their mission from day one. And that’s ensure that every individual a birdie is very clear on their intentions to, there are some regular retreats that birdie run, that allow everyone in the company to be really clear on why they work there, which in turn leads to an amazing culture of community and shared purpose. Here’s Mel to explain more.

Speaker 1 23:55
So we have we have four co founders who are still very, very active in our day to day, Max, our CEO, and Gwen, our chief information security officer, where they can the two who really came up with the idea based on an experience that Max had with his grandparents. And so it’s it’s always been the mission has always been very personal. We we have a retreat accompany retreat every year where we all go over kind of why we’re here and that they it’s really interesting to hear those stories change over time. But every single person at birdie has a reason to be there, and has a very personal reason for being there. It’s a highly, highly emotional session. We do it we do it every year. And I’m always surprised by how many tears there are. But also brings us all much closer together because we all know why we’re there. And it really helps us kind of feel united in driving our mission. So this year for the first time. In fact, last week, we had three different retreats kind of two days for groups of teams. So we had a commercial, a delivery and a core operations retreat, which gave each of those kind of groups of teams opportunity to really strategize together to really bond, we have a very flat structure at birdie. So it’s operationally really important that we all get together and we strategize together. And we’re all really aligned with the direction that we’re going in. And we all have an opinion and are able to share that opinion in a forum with our peers. So that’s definitely a focus for us moving forward kind of getting better at doing these smaller retreats.

Al Elliott 25:38
So we asked Catherine, why is this business case for intentionality? Why do we have to think carefully about what culture we intend to create? Catherine explains.

Speaker 4 25:49
So we we get to choose to put a million pounds a million dollars into a business. And we’re looking at these two businesses dispassionately, which is what institutional investors or venture capitalists, private equity companies, do they look at these businesses, okay, what what are the numbers look like? And then you start to scratch below the surface of numbers. And let’s imagine you’ve got company A and company B. And you know, for example, that absence rates and company B are very, very high, that burnout rates in Company B are really, really high. So what does that tell you about the culture, what it feels like to work around here, it’s clearly got a problem, we are

Leanne Elliott 26:29
seeing more and more investors request people and culture data in their due diligence. If you are looking to scale and exit your business. These are metrics you need to be collecting these metrics your investors will want to see in the future, high turnover, absenteeism, burnout, they’re bad for business, and they’re bad news for investors. Human Centered businesses don’t experience these issues. And that is not only good for business, it’s very good for growth, birdy, were very intentional about their culture. And they knew once they reached 100, employees, they needed an in house, people and culture team to help them with their workplace culture. And as a result, they have seen huge growth.

Speaker 1 27:13
But our first formal people hire was around 100 people. And so we’ve been really intentional in, in growing the people function as being super data led, super forward thinking I personally have spent 13 years in, in Tech for Good startup. And so I have a lot of experience of the impact of being really mission driven. And what that does to people, because people really feel our mission, they care so much about it, that they put everything into it. And so the way that we need to care for those people is unique, we need to, and we need to make sure that we’re being really proactive, we mean need to make sure that being really targeted, because ultimately we are a B Corp startup as well. So we don’t have, you know, the bags of budget, but some big corporations have to throw into wellbeing initiatives. And instead, we have a very, very well intentioned and experienced people team building really targeted initiatives and making sure that what we are building is, is what people need and at the right time rather than too late, which tends to be what happens as you alluded to, when people don’t hire people teams early on.

Al Elliott 28:22
Okay, so that is the first foundation of a human centric workplace intentional collaboration. If we’re to sum that up here, we’ve got a few pithy words you can throw at us. I think

Leanne Elliott 28:35
it’s being intentional around being a people first making that claim at the highest level at senior leadership and at board level. Second, it’s then translating that into a clear vision and purpose for your team. We’re all motivated by something that we believe in. So to be human centric, we need to be uniting people in that shared vision. Three, employee voice sits at the heart of intentional collaboration and human centric cultures. So we really need to be embracing that. And bonus employee voice is gonna give us a metric. So our investors want to see should we want to scale our business? And also we know from what we’ve heard from our experts and from the research that things like burnout, absenteeism, presenteeism and turnover are typically very, very low in human centric organizations.

Al Elliott 29:21
Lovely. Okay, so that’s number one. The second of three foundations is flexible work experiences. Leah, what do we need to know about this?

Leanne Elliott 29:30
Flexible work experiences? This really is the conversation of the moment is it? Is it remote work? Is it back to the office? Which one’s right which one’s wrong? And the answer as always, is somewhere in the middle, and this is what flexible work experience is all about. Most business leaders will accept now that changes the only constant we can just we can just rely on the fact that at some point shits gonna hit the fan and things are gonna go wrong again. And I think what the pandemic was really awesome for is it showed actually how adaptable we are and actually how many busy As we’re able to flip to a remote to fully remote model very quickly and for the vast majority very effectively, I don’t think it really matters where businesses fall, whether they’re remote first, whether they’re office first, I would imagine that all businesses now within their business continuity plans will have a scenario for another pandemic, for another circumstance where we will all need to flip to remote work again. And this is where having a human centric workplace with flexible work built within it is not only going to be supportive for our people and their needs, but also for our business in this VUCA world that we live in. Do you remember bucket algae, remember what it stands for?

Al Elliott 30:41
Something uncertainty, calamity, and the Almighty God coming down and sending a plague? No, I don’t remember vaker is once it’s done,

Leanne Elliott 30:49
volatile, uncertain, complex and ambiguous. Basically, we don’t know what’s around the corner, we have no idea. So being flexible, is really all we can hope for. I think as well, you know, change is inevitable as an organization grows. And growth is one of the biggest threats to culture. And this is where we can see leaders being very protective over the culture and trying to keep it the same. We talked before on the podcast about how actually, rather than trying to protect your culture, look at perhaps evolving your culture, and giving your team the autonomy and agility, they need to not only navigate their roles and the different circumstances that come with it, but also be more agile to change. embracing change and flexibility in the workplace was also a recurrent theme amongst our guests today. Mel highlighted the need for a flexible culture that evolved with the organization. While Stacy advocated for embracing change and discomfort for growth. Catherine also emphasized that redefining productivity and collaboration is really important. Being resilient in the face of change is a great trait. But in some cases, you need to actually welcome change. Here’s Catherine.

Speaker 4 31:59
So you know, we can we can be pulled towards things love, trust, irresistible organizations, which put human experience front and center. All we can run away, because we’re afraid because we’re fearful. And for me, I think a lot of the 20th century, within organizations within the workplace, were really built on the back of quite old school models of how humans are motivated. What what makes humans tick. And there was very much a kind of carrot and stick approach. You know, I’m the boss, and you’re gonna do what I say, which is actually now that we know everything we know about humans and human psychology and intrinsic motivation, we understand that that actually goes completely against what it means to be human. What it means to be a productive citizen, what it means to be somebody who engages with a full heart at work. And people are saying, No, this isn’t working for me anymore. I’m actually deeply unhappy. I’m stressed out. We’re seeing burnout rates at a ridiculous level now in organizations. People are resigning left, right and center, we’ve got a million job vacancies open right now in the United Kingdom. Something’s got to go, something’s got to change. And I think we’ve got there’s a huge opportunity now to create the most amazing, healthy workplaces fit for humans. The

Al Elliott 33:44
other benefit to change is that it does create this tension and challenges which sounds like it’s not a benefit, but it is because the human record human mind requires this very fine balance is what I’ve learned from Leann. Too much change makes us feel threatened and stressed more on high alert. And if we left like that too long, here, we can experience his burnout. But the same is true if we’re not challenged. If we’re bored, or we see no meaning in our work, there’s no opportunity to progress then that’s called rust out, which we talked about about six episodes ago. And both of both of these are bad for a mental health. So we need this balance. So some change and challenge is good for the mind, the body and the soul because it makes us feel alive. As Stacey explains,

Speaker 5 34:29
I think the only thing that we know about life is that changes like happens every day. And like I think people are scared to be uncomfortable. But if you’re not uncomfortable, you’re not growing and you’re not learning like I think sometimes we’re more accepting of some of these things like I find it really weird that people like sign up to uni. I mean, unis dress like fits. I did a Masters for a year and like I had the only reason I got through it is because first of all, I’m not a quitter. And second of all, like I said to myself at the start like this year is gonna be hell. Like I know It’s gonna be hell, but I’m gonna get through it. And I used to say that to myself when I was knee deep in assignments. And I think somehow we seem to get over that, like we seem to get over the concept of this is going to be dreadful if it if I’m going to get a degree at the end of it. But we’re not so great at that, in our day to day life, we seem to think that there’s, there’s no challenge and like, the challenge is in the journey, right? The challenge is every day, like expanding your brain to learn new things, and to do new things and experiencing new things. And I think the problem with the actual problem is when you become static, your brain like, doesn’t know how to cope with that, like we’re on this planet to grow.

Al Elliott 35:39
Another change we’re seeing as part of this progression is, and particularly in high stress environments is the phasing out of competitive workplaces, and old fashioned managers, in fact, is probably down to those pesky Gen Zed as again, who are demanding that this workplace is changing into this new type of culture.

Speaker 4 35:59
What’s really, really interesting to me is seeing how the science is changing from, you know, compete, compete, compete to actually human beings. Over the past 1000s of years, what has enabled us to survive, and thrive has actually been our kindness and our ability to collaborate. It’s not the compete, it’s actually the kindness and the collaboration. And I think that I think the over financialization of system of our of the system that we live in, has pitted us against each other. And I think power, power dynamics in systems have pitted us against each other, the haves and have nots. So I think that’s, that’s the big, that’s the change I’m looking for.

Leanne Elliott 36:48
So providing a great workplace environment is all about helping our people to create these boundaries, it’s going to help them live healthily, and also socialize freely. Socialization at work was maybe once a no, no. And I think you know, these days, we’ve not only learned that socialization is really important to make work, more human centric, but also to create these psychologically safe environments. We want to trust people, we want to have positive relationships with our peers, with our colleagues, with our managers to spark this collaboration and creativity. Catherine explains how Google to this,

Speaker 4 37:25
Google has been famous for this, they now you know, going to the gym, taking a run going on whatever all of that stuff yoga, the physical exertion to get your mind in the right place there. You know, that’s, that’s part of a Google employees every day. Now, it’s not just something you do kind of on the side. So they’ve brought all of this stuff in to, you know, focused work, collaborative working, rest and recovery, and socializing. Guess what socializing is part of how humans work. If you think about the process of creativity and innovation, I need to socialize the idea, I need to push the idea through the organization, I need to kind of under get feedback from people. So I think this sort of one dimensional view of what it is to, for a human to be productive, is just been smashed. And we realized that actually, there’s multiple modes of working. And that’s what that’s what organizations have the opportunity to embrace.

Leanne Elliott 38:33
In fact, resisting change is massively counterproductive, it might feel really natural to be protective of our culture. But as you grow, and even more, so for high growth companies, your culture will change. Mel talks about this as culture at.

Speaker 1 38:51
I’ve worked in so many startups where there is this narrative around protecting culture, we must protect the culture, the culture must stay the same, when actually, if you’re really embracing culture and values, what your culture should be doing with every single person that leaves and joins is adapting slightly, flexing slightly, the intention should be the same. And we should make sure that those intentions follow through and all the work that we do, but our culture will change. And it will shift because everyone who comes in as a culture add is a value add. And we need to be able to embrace that change, we need to like, we need to appreciate it for what it is because it’s a really cool and beautiful thing that everyone who comes in has something to add to our product to our culture to our mission. It is

Al Elliott 39:35
really important to accept though, that this kind of change doesn’t happen overnight. rarely any change does. It requires some time some patience and this openness to learning. Here’s Stacey to explain a bit more.

Speaker 5 39:49
And what they say is that you a small habit will take about 30 days to change as a medium habit like three months and a bigger habit six months right? But that’s when you’re practicing that Every single day, like we call it deliberate practice, right? So it’s a bit like if I was sitting, if you were to tell me that you wanted to become a really great pianist, like you couldn’t just decide that today, and then tomorrow, play me a bit of Mozart, right? You would have to go through like some sort of form of learning, teaching and practice in order to get where you need to be. And even then you would still have to maintain that to keep your skills up, right. And it’s exactly the same thing when it comes to our mental health, right. So if we want to work on something, we have to do the learning do the developing, we might get a teacher to help us. And we need to deliberately practice every day until we get to a point where we think, yeah, we’ve got this. But then we also have to maintain it, which most people don’t want to do. They want a quick fix, which is why our pharmaceutical business is so massive, right?

Al Elliott 40:51
So before we go on to number three, can you just sum up for us flexible work experiences, Lee?

Leanne Elliott 40:57
Yeah, I think flexible work experience is about creating that flexibility for our people to help them build resilience to change, change is is going to stay with those. So I think it really is about creating environments in which people feel able, resilient, and agile to the changes that are inevitably going to come up whether within our control as a growth organization, or whether it be external factors. The second I think leadership being open to change and also change within the organization. As you grow your culture, your organization will change your role within it will change to is being open to that and embracing that. And I think finally doing those two things, is going to help build positive relationships within your organization. And as we know, they are the key to psychological safety, which in turn is the key to creativity and collaboration.

Al Elliott 41:46
Fabulous. So that was foundation number two foundation. Number three is empathy based management. Lee, what do we need to know about this?

Leanne Elliott 41:54
Well, a strong trait in people who are empathetic and compassionate is emotional intelligence helps us be a better leader. It helps us be a better team player. And all in all, being an honest, just a better person. You know, empathy based management is something that is talked about more and more frequently. And I think that the key for me there’s different elements of of empathy. I think the key for me, and the one that seems to resonate most with the people that may be a bit more skeptic or think this is a bit fluffy and soft to be empathetic as a leader is empathic concern. What can I do as a leader to make your job easier and make you more productive? The importance of creating workplaces that prioritize this type of empathy will breed human connection, and that emotional intelligence is also going to be what underpins authentic relationships. All three of our speakers shared this view that empathy is fundamental when it comes to effective management in today’s organizations, Mel emphasized it relationship building and a mission driven culture are Stacey Focused on emotional management, Catherine stressed the importance of power skills, and the acknowledgement of emotions at work. Here’s Catherine,

Speaker 4 43:13
and I’m particularly interested in emotional intelligence. Because for me, I think that’s the secret source of great leadership. And it is also it’s how we make workplaces more human. So it’s what a lot of people call the soft skills, what I like to call human skills or power skills. So yeah, I work with with organizations to help people to really understand the impact of bringing emotion and feeling back to work. Because when I started 30 years ago, emotions weren’t really wanted at work. In fact, it was almost like leave your emotions at the door. They’re not required here. Just before

Al Elliott 44:01
we go on to Mel to talk about emotional intelligence, I heard what might be the worst example of the difference between empathy and sympathy. The other day on Twitter, Leon’s example of differences in empathy, and sympathy is if someone’s stuck in a hole, a big hole, then sympathy is standing up the hole and going, Oh, that looks horrible. I hope you’re okay. Empathy is getting a ladder getting down into the hole and going, Oh, it’s dark down here is now this guy on Twitter was saying all the difference in empathy and sympathy is imagine you’re standing on the edge of a ship and someone’s throwing up, sympathy is at next to them and giving them a sick bag and saying, are you okay? Empathy is throwing up with them. I thought was a very strange analogy. I’m not sure

Leanne Elliott 44:40
that’s it.

Al Elliott 44:42
I don’t think it is either.

Leanne Elliott 44:44
I think it’s a good effort. I admire it, or the try

Al Elliott 44:49
the tri c minus. So Mel talks about emotional intelligence quite a lot. Now, she said it’s sometimes difficult to listen without judgment. And I think all of us struggle with this, but Mel who seems to have nailed this emotional intelligence has a great way to listen without judgment,

Speaker 1 45:06
I practice something called unlimited positive regard. So I will come into every situation. And for anyone who studied Mental Health First Aid, this is a key concept of that is not having judgment in any situation. So just being completely open. And even if someone is coming at you and going, this is awful, I hate this, you are just a recipient of that you’re hearing it, that’s their perspective, that’s their lived experience, you have no place to judge in that space, hear them out, and therefore create that, that safety for them so that they continue can continue to communicate in that way.

Leanne Elliott 45:46
I think as humans, it’s almost impossible for us not to be judgmental, in some way, you know, we’re gonna have an opinion on what somebody is thinking or saying or experiencing, I think it’s more a case of be just mental, just shut the fuck out. Like, you know, if I’m gonna listen to you, and be empathetic and, and try and try and help you in this situation, you don’t need my opinion, I can have it and I can maybe go back to them, you know, back home to my partner and go, you won’t believe what Jeff said today, you know, but I don’t, I just don’t think I just, you know,

Al Elliott 46:19
so regular listeners will know that the analyzed volunteer for a charity called the Samaritans in the UK, the whole point of that is non judgmental, listening. But it is so difficult to listen to someone and put your judgment to one side, particularly when it’s something that you’ve been in been through yourself.

Speaker 2 46:33
It can be and I think, again, this is why, you know, as a manager, if there’s one skill that you’re going to develop is that listening skills. And I think really, you know, coaching is a brilliant way to in terms of training, you know, training in some kind of coach based leadership is really effective, because it teaches you all these skills, it’s not about changing your opinion, it’s not about changing how you think things should operate or work. It’s about learning that your opinion in this moment is not necessary. It’s not important, and it’s not gonna be helpful,

Al Elliott 47:04
lovely, loving as you get a t shirt with that, on your opinion is not helpful. We don’t care. We do care about

Leanne Elliott 47:11
your bowel, right? That’s why I’ve got podcasts.

Al Elliott 47:15
You’re allowed an opinion?

Leanne Elliott 47:18
Do you have a microphone?

Al Elliott 47:21
Yeah, maybe that’s not a good judgment, grab, listen to some podcasts where they perhaps shouldn’t have microphones anyway. So I’m not gonna say no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I’m not saying because the whole point is that is that no judgment, no. Judgment here. So if your workplace feels like is squeezing every single drop of work from you, then it just feels like you’re surviving, not thriving. Now, Catherine talks about this compassionate environment, which helps people to thrive instead,

Speaker 4 47:51
increasingly, organizations are starting to realize that if you want to have people thriving, you know that there’s a scale here isn’t there between people who are surviving. And then what we really want with engagement is we want people who are actually thriving, who are leaning into work where we’re, we’re getting more than just a nine to five out of them. So I think there’s, there’s, there’s huge, there’s huge bodies of research now, that evidence, the importance of the investment in whole human being, if you want to have a productive, high performing workforce.

Al Elliott 48:31
The perfect example of this is the idea that leaders or management or senior management seem to think that everyone should be at work and doing eight hours of focus non stop work, we can’t do that. We all know that eight hours of focus work is impossible, like with anything, especially work,

Speaker 4 48:48
there is a recognition of what does it mean to be human? Well, I think one of the things about being human is being on your A game, and doing 100% focused work for eight hours a day is just a nonsense. It’s just not true. So then what is emerging from all of the neuroscience now about being in the flow of work? Because best guess what, that’s when we do our best thinking. That’s when we do our innovating. And going back to this idea of you know, if you’re an investor, you’ve got company A, you’ve got Company B, where do you put your money? Do you know what I want to put my money into that healthy workforce? I want to put my money where people want to go to work, where there are low salt, low indicators of burnout where there are you know, where, where people that are actually socializing at work. They’re doing focused work for some of the day. But they’re also collaborating collaborative working, because guess what, that’s what humans like to do best. We were kind of made for that collaboration social piece, where there’s also you’re building rest and recovery into the working day. A

Leanne Elliott 50:00
Stasi made a really awesome observation, she feels that the pandemic has forced us all to be a little more kind to each other, and to ourselves,

Speaker 5 50:10
I actually think the pandemic enabled us to connect with people in a way we have not been able to do in a long while, and also able us to soothe ourselves without the distractions that we often have to pay for, because those things weren’t available to us. So we had to think outside of the box. And I think also enabled us to, I guess, appreciate some what the finer things in life it kind of calm that dopamine aspect of us, and actually allowed a lot more of the serotonin longer term happiness, oxytocin type activity, which is caring for each other, hanging out with like one another when we can, communicating all of that stuff. So I think, coming out of the pandemic, it just reinforced my values, you know, about kindness, how much kindness is important, how much friendship is important, how much connection is important, you know, yes, achievement, success, you know, doing well in life, yeah, it can help you along those ways. But if you don’t have the fundamental basics, then inevitably, you will feel the wrath of the human condition, you will feel disappointed and sad and ashamed and guilty.

Leanne Elliott 51:20
And Catherine completely agrees

Speaker 4 51:23
that kindness is the is the highest form of intelligence. I’m very fortunate to be married to a man who’s incredibly kind. And it’s something that it’s a value and a trait that I that I really, really respect in other people. And I think that that is the beginning of change. Being kind to yourself, being compassionate to yourself, as we talked about earlier, forgiving self. And I think that that has got to be the beginning of of, of a massive transformational change, all change has to start with the self. If you’re going to go on some kind of transformation, journey, organizational wellbeing journey, it starts with myself. What is what is the world I want to create?

Al Elliott 52:13
Okay, so we know that compassion means kindness. But what happens when you have to have a difficult conversation with someone as most leaders at some point in their career will have to do? Well? Can you still be compassionate, Mel from birdie explains that she thinks she can.

Speaker 1 52:28
So I went over this concept that there are three types of conversation. All all conversations fall into one of three types, they are relationship building, possibility building or moving towards action. And I see them as like a child stacking toy, you know, the one with a stick and three doughnuts on it. And the key for me is that that foundational element, which is building a relationship, understanding your peers, understanding your direct reports, understanding your manager in a way that embraces them as their whole self, not just the person that they turn up to work as. So are we asking the right questions? Are we listening? are we hearing? Which are two different things? And are we really understanding who this person is? Are we creating space for them to be able to say actually, I’m not aligned with this project? This is my flag. I think this is a blocker, you know, are we creating those spaces, because if we aren’t, what we’re doing is we’re driving, driving people to deliver on things that they they don’t feel psychologically safe working on. And so build that relationship first, allow people to show up as their whole selves. And then when you have those tough conversations, they’re a lot easier to have because you’re, you’re coming at it from a place of mutual trust.

Al Elliott 53:41
So being kind to yourself is so so important. I think often comparing yourself to others is the worst thing you can do. It was Teddy Roosevelt who said that comparison is the thief of joy, why would you count someone else’s blessings instead of your own?

Speaker 5 53:58
Like I remember working for a crisis team over in West London, which is attached to Imperial College, right genius college for mathematicians and scientists. And you’d have people that had been top of the tree in their secondary school done really well. And then suddenly, they were surrounded by other geniuses, and no longer were they at the top of the tree. They were like 25 in their class. And they literally could not happen to them. They were then a failure, they could not see the bigger picture. They could not take a helicopter view and compare themselves to any other student within the UK. They compare themselves to that year group. And they would rather have a diagnosed mental illness. So there was a reason for them becoming 25 Or they’d rather die. And I find that absolutely shocking, that a person would rather not be on this planet, rather than not get an A and that’s how much kind of pressure is put on our younger kids nowadays.

Leanne Elliott 54:59
There’s idea of kindness might sound I know lefty woke wishy washy, fluffy. Some may say, maybe it’s just for those organizations that plant trees that have mindfulness at lunch, some kind of vegan menu in the cafeteria owl.

Al Elliott 55:18
Oat Milk frappuccinos

Leanne Elliott 55:20
do enjoy. Milk Frappuccino actually have changed, man. But anyway, narrow kindness isn’t work. Kindness is good for business. Kindness is good for performance, even the f1 teams that Stacy works with embrace kindness

Speaker 5 55:37
when you’re working for a high performance team like the trials and tribulations and also like what you give, like lifewise, like a lot of these guys are like away every single week, they their sleep patterns all over the place. And, like, the highs and the lows of the win is like, difficult. And I think it’s the same with if you think about like, other types of performers, musicians, you know, and there’s also not just the drivers, but the whole team around them that sacrifice their life go away from their families. And, you know, so I think the Formula One team that I work with are very forward thinking about supporting their staff, and also want to be making sure that you know, if people are struggling, that they’re able to come out and speak out and get the support that they need, right.

Al Elliott 56:23
So kindness to yourself is so important. And it can include challenging our own assumptions about ourselves and our circumstances. Leann taught me this idea of cognitive thinking error. And it’s really common when you’re feeling stressed or overwhelmed or unsure about the future, you may have heard it called irrational thinking, or irrational beliefs. And whilst there are rational that definitely not uncommon,

Speaker 2 56:48
and aren’t uncommon, and I think this is why psychoeducation is really important by understanding ourselves and us our own thoughts as humans, how our mind works, will help us be kind to ourselves, and over time, be kind to others. There are many, many different types of thinking errors, there may be some that are more common. And I think if we can start to identify these types of thinking errors in ourselves, and in our teams that are really starting to help us be more effective and empathic as managers. So to name a few that you might see pop up or observing either yourself or others more frequently, mind reading, or jumping to conclusions, particularly conclusions that we don’t have control over. For example, if I don’t work overtime, then I’ll get sacked that as an example, an example of mind reading, another one is all or nothing thinking or thinking and extremes. So things like, my job is awful. This, this situation is terrible. This customer is the worst, this always happens to me. That’s all or nothing thinking. Labeling is another type of thinking error that can be very detrimental to our self esteem to our self efficacy. This is where we basically call ourselves names, will say I’m an idiot, I’m stupid. You know, why would anybody want to be around me because I’m such an idiot. That’s the type of labeling of ourselves that is that is really destructive. That’s probably one as well, you’ll find coming up within your teams as well. If they are struggling with stress, they’ll start to label themselves in this way. And the final one that is quite common phony ism, this will probably sound familiar. It’s where you’ll say things like, you know, if I, if I perform badly, people will see the real me, they’ll know that I’m fraud. That is essentially impostor syndrome. And phony ism is a thinking error that sits behind impostor syndrome. So there are some common thinking errors, there are many others, I would absolutely suggest that you try to start to identify these in your own way of thinking and with those in your teams. And to help with that I’ll I thought we would finish this episode with a little suggested exercise, a little challenge for our listeners to maybe start to help them identify these thinking errors. Which thing?

Al Elliott 59:16
Yeah, but I’m terrible at these exercises. See what just did they’re labeled?

Leanne Elliott 59:21
Very good. Very good. Oh, you’re all over this.

Al Elliott 59:25
Only because I know that if if I’m really stressed, or if I’m gonna have a bad day, and I dropped something, I do tend to go oh, your red deer cow. Because and the analyst shouted at me for it, but I was before I was like, Oh, well, I’m just you know, I’m just expressing how frustrated I am. But she’s right that is labeling and that’s not very helpful. But so this exercise, what do we need to do?

Speaker 2 59:45
So this is dare I dare I use the word journaling. And I will have some British listeners might be like, although I think that is the opinion is changing. What can really help us to identify these thinking errors is to create a record of them And to start to identify patterns. So the first thing to do and I’ve got a little is it an anagram? Is that what you call it? Not an anagram? Is it that’s the other one.

Al Elliott 1:00:08
acronym or anagram? acronym is when is like NATO. That one? Yep. You got an acronym? Yeah.

Leanne Elliott 1:00:14
I’ve called. WTF G?

Al Elliott 1:00:18
Oh, I like it. Very gangster in contemporary. Okay.

Leanne Elliott 1:00:25
So the W W Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:00:28
What were you thinking? What was it? What was the thinking error? Just write it down exactly as it appeared in your head. So it’s our said, you know, you drop something, you say, Oh, he’s such an idiot. Just write that down. I’m such an idiot. The T timing? Where were you tried to think about the place the situation? Was it at home? Was it at work? Was it after a terrible phone call with a customer or with a colleague? The other aspect of timing as well as how many times did you think about it afterwards? Particularly if you’ve labeled yourself How many times have you repeated that in your head that You’re such an idiot? Or you’re such a failure? Do you tend to have these types of thoughts in similar situations. So for example, is after a moment of confrontation, or a moment of, of high stress meeting a deadline? Are there any patterns in terms of the timing of these thinking areas? So that Shi T, your F is your feeling? Once you have the thoughts and the situation identify the emotion that it causes to you that thinking error? Is it frustration? Is it anger? Is it sadness? Is it embarrassment? Is it humiliation? Is it insecurity? What is the feeling that comes along with that with that thinking error, and why that’s important is that often we’re not very good at being congruent in how we’re thinking and how we’re feeling or expressing how we’re feeling. With the right emotion. For example, we might feel very angry on the inside. But externally, we’re expressing that as tears, it looks like sadness. So labeling the feeling of experience, along with that thinking error can also help us understand it a little bit more. And finally, gee, that’s where we want to group with the themes together. So after a while, a few days, the end of the week, look through the notes that you’ve made, and try to group these thoughts into some type of theme. Is it when you’re have a you know, they always happen after an interaction with a certain manager, a certain customer, certain person? Is it a certain time of day? Is it a certain context? Is it more in home based situations? What themes can we pull together, and it could be anything from a person to skipping breakfast that day, any theme that brings these things together can help you understand them, and identify them in terms of the thinking errors themselves, you might want to try and group them together in terms of the definition of the thinking error. Or you can look at something more simple for things like, you know, thoughts that are always always or never will go together that extreme thinking I always miss important meetings, I never say smart things. Nobody appreciates me. So just to recap that WTF, gee, that’s where the timing, the feeling, and then grouping those things together to see any patterns. Once you’ve done this for a couple of weeks, maybe a month. This is a type of objective data that’s going to really help you to understand when you’ve been unkind to yourself and why you’ve been unkind to yourself, sometimes is not that obvious. Sometimes it’s hard to catch, if we can write it down. If we can reflect on these things, we can see these patterns, we can start to take steps to be more kind to ourselves. And as I said over time, more kind to others.

Al Elliott 1:03:46
I love it. I love it. I didn’t expect to end up with an exercise, I realized that it just I was I was doing the exercise myself when I was when I last call myself an idiot. And it was when I tripped on the stairs yesterday morning and spilled some coffee on the stairs. And I remember being really stressed yesterday because we just moved into a new house where everything was all over the place walking up the stairs. And suddenly today I discovered that one of the stairs is very slightly higher than the rest of them. And that’s probably why a trip so I’m thinking back to my WTF Jay on that. And the times when I do what I do call myself an idiot is usually when something’s I’m really stressed about something or we’re doing a pod the next day and I feel like I’ve not prepared enough or something like that. So this is this is really cool. Did you make that up?

Leanne Elliott 1:04:24
Yeah. Did I make it up the exercise itself? No. The exercise itself is is a reflective practice to help us identify thinking areas I think it’s actually based in neuroscience where I read it from initially but in terms of WTF Gee, yeah, I thought I didn’t catch you because you’re you shout me for not catching names. So that’s always shout at me extreme thinking.

Al Elliott 1:04:50
Well, there we go. There’s another example so late, how much have we covered? We covered everything? Should we just quickly go through those three again?

Leanne Elliott 1:04:57
Yes. So we have talked about the pillars have a human centric culture, and had three awesome guests to help us do that along the way. That first pillar is intentional collaboration. The second pillar is flexible work experiences. And finally, the third pillar, empathetic management.

Al Elliott 1:05:18
So if you enjoy listening to our guests, go find them on LinkedIn. Give them a poke, because can you start start a thing on LinkedIn? Are you allowed to do that? Can you write on their

Leanne Elliott 1:05:25
wall thinking these times one is allowed to poke, but go and

Al Elliott 1:05:29
go and give them a nudge? Tell him that you listen to you heard them on the truth lives and work pod and that you enjoyed him? You thought they were great. If you didn’t think they were great, then just keep your keep your thoughts to yourself.

Leanne Elliott 1:05:38
Keep that judgment to yourself.

Al Elliott 1:05:41
Brilliant. Okay, so next week have we had we’ve got about five episodes planned and we’re not sure which ones coming in next week. Do we have we finalized it Lee?

Speaker 2 1:05:49
Yes, we do. September next week, getting back into the full swing, give it maybe you’ve had an indulgent summer I know that we accidentally have in terms of the old cash, Renee, so we were definitely looking for ways to improve our financial well being on the run up to Christmas and your employees may well be looking to do the same. So we are talking financial well being next week. We have three incredible gas, we are talking to you. Am I allowed to say? No.

Al Elliott 1:06:17
I think was okay, because one of them. You’ve been chasing down for about nine months. And you find a guy I haven’t

Leanne Elliott 1:06:23
been chasing, I haven’t been chasing them down. It’s taken me that long to pluck up the courage to actually get in touch with them and ask them once I asked. They were like yeah, sure sounds great. How’s that? Really?

Al Elliott 1:06:35
There’s a cliffhanger to leave it on. So we’ll see you next week. Bye bye

Leanne Elliott 1:06:47
it seems to be flexible work. It’s just the mid up. But a Baba but

Al Elliott 1:06:58
eyes and teeth, eyes and teeth