Ep08: How to build a Positive Workplace Culture

However, Is it really attainable?

In this episode, Business Psychologist (and lead consultant at Oblong), Leanne Elliott goes through the suggestions that the original authors make, and explains what’s good advice, what’s not and what is downright impractical.

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The Transcript

⚠️ NOTE: This is an automated transcript, so it might not always be 100% accurate!

Leanne Elliott
They said to ‘always forgive’, but I’m uncomfortable because I think forgiveness is almost irrelevant

Al Elliott
Hello, and welcome to the truth lies and workplace culture podcast. This is episode eight, and I’m Al. I’m Leanne. And if you’ve not listened before, just the format of the podcast is very much that Leanne is the expert in workplace culture, and the deal with engagement, leadership, etc, etc. I’m not the expert, but I do own a couple of businesses. And so therefore, I’ll be quizzing her and translating the science that comes out of her mouth into stuff that we can actually as business owners, or we can actually implement anything to add to that layer. No, I’m ready to be translated.

Al Elliott
So today, we are gonna be talking about positive work cultures. Now this is based on an article I think, Leah that did you find this article? It did it popped up on my my LinkedIn feed, actually. Yeah. And it was originally Well, it was published in the Harvard Business Review, and it’s by a lady called Emma Cipolla, and another one called Kim Cameron. Which are they? I think I must from Yale School of Management. And Kim is a Professor of Management at the University of Michigan. Now, when you originally read this article, what were your initial thoughts on this layer?

Leanne Elliott
I think is it as a psychologist, I appreciated the the overarching narrative, in terms of somebody who has worked in businesses and with business owners, it all just sound a bit like, Well, that’s nice, but how can actually make that work commercially? All sounds just a bit too. Whoo, and a bit too friendly, and a bit, too, not real worldy. So I saw it. And I just thought this might be an interesting thing for us to touch on and just translate some of the truth and maybe some of the potential lies of, of what the authors are saying a positive culture is, as presented in this article. Of course, he’s a very specialist people. I’m not competing with professors from University of Michigan or Yale, certainly not. But I think what we’re not saying, well, we’re not saying they’re wrong. We’re saying, as consultants in workplace culture, we think that sometimes this level of best practice needs some translation, just to help SMEs better understand it as a concept and also to leverage the techniques in a way it’s actually going to work for their business. Absolutely. And I think that’s that’s the one of the issues that as a as a non professional, I come across when I read stuff, particularly very academic, or stuff that’s come from an academic sort of person is that I go Well, that’s all well and nice. And perhaps if I was Google, IBM, or someone with a budget of 10 million a year to spend on my people, then yes, that would be the thing we’re going for. But the fact is that if with most businesses, you’re growing, you need to make sure that you spend your money as responsibly as you possibly can. But also look after your people. And so I think what’s interesting will be interesting about this is to go through their ideas and then say, right, what is it that we can actually take from this and apply to a smaller business who perhaps don’t have or doesn’t have the budget that larger businesses might have? So we start off with this idea. I mean, the headline of the of the article is proof that positive work cultures are more productive. But I don’t think I understand what a positive work culture is. So can you explain what is a positive culture? Yeah, so in in psychology, if you’re reading anything psychology based, and you see the word positive, that comes from a movement called positive psychology, which was founded by a guy called Martin Seligman in the late 90s, he was the president of the American Psychological Association, his mandate as a time was to shift the mindset that was psychologists were bringing to human behaviour. So where the focus traditionally was on mental illness, maladaptive behaviours, negative thinking, and how we address those to a point where someone can function normally in inverted commas. It builds more on the movements of humanistic movements, and encourages an emphasis on the more positive aspects. So how we can help people get from from kind of surviving to thriving. So if I’ve understood that correctly, then the traditional thinking was more like a sticky plaster or a medicine or something to fix the problem, the ailment, whereas the positive work culture is more about how to eat healthily how to take vitamins so that you don’t get in that situation in the first place.

Leanne Elliott
Yeah, I mean, I guess is it is a psychological school of thought is kind of going from rather than just focusing all of our efforts on the problems and getting them to a point where they are then functioning, how do we actually start with what’s functioning and make changes to make them thrive? So we’re looking at that an organisational culture perspective. Maybe rather than this, though, focusing on perhaps very small areas of toxicity within your culture. It’s putting you Time attention into those people who are currently functioning well within your business and helping them thrive and in turn helping your business thrive focusing on the positive aspects.

Al Elliott
Okay, so if I’ve got 20 employees, and one of them I know is on Facebook half the time, and another one is long term, absent and and doesn’t seem very engaged when they’re here, but the other 18 are pretty well engaged, then, am I right in thinking that positive culture is basically building on the strength of the other 18? First before we rather than going straight for the two, which I’m not sure about and trying to fix that?

Leanne Elliott
Yes, but I think this is where my first question mark with with how his article is presented comes up. And that is the fact that to me, I don’t necessarily think positive culture is a type of culture and what you explained there was what I’d call an engaging culture. So we’ve talked about this on the podcast before, but it’s about how leaders can actually put their efforts into the people who are engaged, rather than disengaged, and how that’s going to have much more benefits for you. Both in the short and the long term. For me, when I’m looking at it something like this explanation of a positive culture, to me, it feels more like a an organisational climate as opposed to an organisational culture.

Al Elliott
Okay, well, you’ve just used a phrase there that I’ve not really come across before organisational climate. So what’s the what the hell is an organisational climate versus the culture.

Leanne Elliott
So climate is more about staffs perceptions of how the work environment is currently impacting them impacting the team impacting their work impacting their well being. Climate is fairly changeable, and it can fluctuate. So for example, if you’re in an organisation say you are in a school, and your school typically is all about teamwork, it’s very much around positive relationships and enablement. But then you you get announced that offset are coming in to inspect your organisational climate is going to shift very quickly, it’s going to become more about right, process driven. How do we show this? How do we achieve that? How do we evidence this? How do we get everybody to hit these deadlines very quickly, the climate is going to change to facilitate the current challenge that the organisation is going through. Culture, on the other hand is much more ingrained within the norms and the expected behaviours of a workplace. So it’s less on what is being done, and how it’s being done.

Al Elliott
So if you are a creative agency, and you have a you, when a big project is coming towards the end of this deadline, then your climate might be one of one of like, we’ve got a rush, we’ve got to, we’ve got to make sure there’s work good and done on time, etc, etc, that might necessarily affect the culture, which is everyone does the best they possibly can and really cares about the about the customer, or the client, but you’re saying that the culture can fluctuate throughout perhaps a year, whereas the sorry, the climate can fluctuate throughout the year, whereas the culture, ideally would stay the same.

Leanne Elliott
Yeah, unless there’s a fundamental changes in the business, rapid growth, for example, that can threaten the existing culture within within the business. But if you don’t go through a significant change, then culture is going to be fairly stable. Unless you you want you know, you you’re either an intervention or something happens to the business, whereas climate is going to fluctuate with both the individuals and the environment in which they operate.

Al Elliott
So how does the business owner manage the climate or create an engaging climate?

Leanne Elliott
So I think really with with climate, we first need to think about culture, because climate is also one of those things that fairly may be fairly uncontrollable, depending on the other influences on the business. So for example, at the moment, the cost of living crisis is causing significant challenges for businesses, both in terms of the kind of their financial implications of that, and also the well being of staff potentially. So climate is also a phenomenon of external factors are uncontrollable, we always like to focus on what is controllable. So I think if we first look at, at culture, the tricky thing with culture, there’s no real agreed definition on culture. And again, we’ve touched on this before when we talk about recruiting for culture fit. And that is one of the first issues. That said, some more recent research has looked at hundreds of models on culture. And it’s found that there’s eight typical types of culture, essentially mapped on a scale of how people interact, whether they are independent or interdependent, and how they adapt to change. So are the opposite operating in environments that are typically quite flexible and rapidly changing? Or are they in environments that are quite stable? The important thing with his research, and what was concluded is that of these eight culture types, there is a one that’s superior to the other. They all come with their advantages and disadvantages. So if we take two opposite coaches, so in terms of how he’s coached a map, the two that would be considered kind of polar opposites of each other. So one of the coaches of the eight coaches that was identified is called a caring culture. So a caring culture will focus on relationships, mutual trusts, work environments are going to be very warm, very collaborative, very welcoming places, they’re going to be to find people who, who really help and support one another got their way to help us support one another. And employees typically are united by a sense of meaning, loyalty. And lead is really going to emphasise this sincerity behind teamwork, these positive relationships, think something like the NHS is going to have typically a caring culture.

Al Elliott
Okay, well, I mean, that sounds like something that everybody wants this this culture. So how can you have a culture which is opposite?

Leanne Elliott
Well, the thing with a caring culture and the advantages are, you are going to have improved teamwork, engagement, communication, trust and that huge sense of belonging. But the disadvantage of that is there may be an overemphasis on consensus, it may be very difficult to explore new options, it might stifle competitiveness, low decision making is likely to creep in. I mean, I’m sure we speak to anybody who works in, in organisations that are very purpose, purpose led change. So it can be very, very difficult to implement. And that in itself, can really stagnant stagnate growth. The opposite culture is what’s called a results driven culture. So it’s very much about achievements. And it’s very goal focused. So whereas you’re going to have this improved execution, that the caring culture may not, you’re also going to have a lot more of focus on goal achievement on capability building, much more of a competitive nature, not necessarily between the team but externally with other organisations. The downside of this is there going to be the may be in over emphasis on achieving results. And that may lead to breakdowns in communication and collaboration, and also high levels of stress anxiety, if people aren’t managed in a way to make sure they’re not going, they’re not burning themselves out, and they have the right levels of resilience to deal with this more high pressure environment. Neither culture is perfect. Each has their advantages and disadvantages. And I think, really, by understanding the culture that you currently have, and then Lang over and engage in climate, then in a business leader, you’re gonna be able to moderate any of the potential disadvantages of the current culture.

Al Elliott
Okay, so let’s take this more practical view of this. So we’re gonna pick a business, let’s say it’s an accountancy firm, and their culture is obviously results, but also carefulness and, you know, attention to detail, et cetera, et cetera. So that is their culture. But then when it comes to tax season, when they’ve got when they’ve got to submit everyone’s tax returns on by the 31st, of January for the UK, then I’m getting I’m imagining that the climate at that point is going to be a bit more frenetic is going to change slightly, is that right or not?

Leanne Elliott
Yes, yeah, it might well do and as you say, it’s, it’s very likely that organisations are going to have a dominant culture, and then kind of a, a secondary culture. So as you said, they’re you know, an organisation that is in is in an area that works in compliance and regulation. And within the law, there is going to have to be an element of a culture called order, which more rule abiding, more cooperative as a big focused on big focus on operational efficiency, there is, you know, an emphasis on rules and things that need to be need to be followed. So what you might find in in areas where the climate will shift, this secondary culture may come to the fore.

Al Elliott
Okay, that makes sense. So, I mean, moving back onto this article, it if I remember, they’ve got six characteristics of a positive workplace culture. And there’s one that just jumped out at me, which it didn’t feel right or practical actually might have been right but as a business owner, I’m like, This doesn’t seem practical. And that was that one of the essential characters was avoiding blame and forgiving mistakes. Now, as a business leader, how can we make that work commercially if we’re not able to hold people to account then you know, if someone goes a messes up massively, I go, I don’t worry. It’s alright. It’s alright. It’s not all right. It’s pretty far from all right. So how do we hold people to account but still incorporate this idea of avoiding blame or forgiving mistakes?

Leanne Elliott
Yeah, so it’s a really good point and it is one as well that really stuck out to me when I I read through. I mean, what this is essentially referring to is a culture is a learning culture. And we know that learning cultures have very positive relationships with both well being and performance. So learning coaches are very open, they’re very inventive, it’s all about exploration. You know, creativity really is is at the heart of a learning culture. What that also means is well to allow that, that level of creativity and innovation is high levels of psychological safety, and to be psychologically safe, we need to know that we can make mistakes, and we’re not going to be blamed or immediately fired for doing them. So we think Elon Musk, if we think Tesla, SpaceX, you know, they’re they’re very focused on innovation and Innovation at that level is quite literally world changing, the man’s trying to get as on a colony on Mars in the next 30 years. But if you look at you know, the starship prototypes, I think there must be a number 15 now because they keep blowing off or missing their landing or so in that essentially, the learning culture isn’t about blaming, you know, it’s adding blame in general, whatever organisation is not going to be a very productive thing to do. Because then also, as a leader, if you’re blaming somebody, you’re not taking accountability for your role in whatever it happened for this mistake to happen. So I’m half I’m half with them. No blame is really good. Always forgive, I’m uncomfortable, because I think forgiveness is is is almost irrelevant. Yes, you forgive, you know, you’re not going to hold a grudge for somebody who, who makes mistake, that’s, that’s not gonna be productive. But at the same time, you need to help people learn from their mistakes need to help your teams learn from mistakes, need to reflect on what went, Well, what went wrong. Where are the red flags? What did we miss? What could we do differently in the future? What can we learn from this situation to make sure it doesn’t happen again, and we get better outcomes for the business for ourselves. And for our customers. There is a point however, where the learning could stop, and somebody’s an individual or a team continues to make the same mistakes over and over again. Now, it’s at this point that I think always forgiving, becomes a little bit counterproductive is bad for you. And it’s bad for your business. But also, it’s bad for that individual, very few people come to work every day with the intention of doing a bad job. But they may be in the wrong role for them, they might be in the wrong team, they might just not have the strength skills, knowledge, the abilities to do this job at the level at which it needs to be done. At that point, your responsibility as a leader is to either help that person find another job within the organisation that is more fitting to their skills, or work with them to manage them out the business because ultimately, repeated mistakes is not sustainable for a business that is in growth.

Al Elliott
Let me ask you then, because there’s there’s a fair bit in that article about social relation relationships. But as a manager or a leader, do I want to be friends with my employees? Do I want them to be friends with each other? Is that the right or wrong thing to do? What do you think?

Leanne Elliott
I think undoubtedly positive relationships in the workplace are going to have a positive impact on engagement on wellbeing, performance, you know, good relationships with our with our peers, our managers, our leaders, they’re really important. And they have, you know, evidence shows they have a direct impact on our performance on our well being on our physical health even. But what I feel is asked was perhaps over, over emphasising is the root of these positive relationships isn’t friendship, or dare I say, family? And I think this is where the the risk in and potential negative impacts could come. I mean, no one wants to perform as manage their best mate if things aren’t going well, right. But I think with these types of relationships, bringing a friend, being a family is more pulling out the principles and then reframing them to then apply it in your business serve, for example, in these types of relationships with friends and families, you know, that there is this healthy feeling of being able to challenge people to have discussions to be able to question why somebody believes a certain way or, or to problem solve or to, to innovate or think about, well, what is the best way to cook the roast chicken on Sunday. And it’s not a case of avoiding conflict. But it’s a case of making sure that situations don’t escalate to a point of conflict, and also dealing with any unacceptable behaviours within the workplace as well. being empathetic with the challenges somebody is facing in their business. These are all aspects of we’d find in friendships we find in family relationships, and they will motivate people, they will help performance they will nurture well being but they’re done through the lens of an organisation and through business management.

Al Elliott
He talks about empathy quite a lot there. And I think, I mean, I know that back in the day when you when you had a job, one of your best lead best managers or I’m demonstrate a huge amount of empathy. I looking back to back 20 years ago, when I used to work for people, then the worst bosses, the ones who didn’t weren’t empathy, empathic, is that right? empathetic, empathic, whatever the word is. And so, so, and those and the best ones, the ones who did have this empathy. So as a leader, how are you going to develop this empathy, or this empathic leadership style?

Leanne Elliott
Yeah, and empathic leadership is something that is getting a lot more coverage at the moment. And it can be really effective in terms of motivating performance and nurturing well being, I guess, first of all, to define what it is to be an empathic leader, you know, demonstrating empathy, which is, you know, imagine we can use this analogy or oblong, where, if you imagine calibre a person who’s who’s in a hole, then sympathy is somebody standing, looking into the hole going you all right, that looks bad, I’m so sorry, that this happened to you. Empathy is when that that, that that second person who’s not in the hole will get a ladder, Get in the hole with them and go, Wow, it’s dark down here, isn’t it? That’s empathy. And when you have real empathy for the challenges that your your team are facing, that creates trust, and trust creates empowering and honest relationships between colleagues. And that’s what in turn is going to increase collaboration and productivity. Because if you have honest relationships with with your colleagues, you’re going to have this, these behaviours, these rules that you’re going to help somebody out, if they need it, you’re gonna pick up over a flurry of workload if you’ve got the capacity, because you’ve got that trust, and that that’s what leads to collaboration and productivity. It’s that feeling of being taken care of. So in terms of demonstrating empathic leadership, there are a few things that you can do to develop this within your approach, first of all, is just showing genuine interest in others. And I think one of the thing that really bugged me, is when, for example, an employee walked in, whether it’s your office or over to your desk, and they say, is it okay, if I talk to you for a second, and the leader will be there typing an email, I go and not look at them not look up and go, Yep, sure, what can I help you with and keep typing, typing, that’s not creating an environment where I can open up to you or I can tell you what’s going on, or what I need help with. If that happens, stop what you’re doing, turn your chair, look at them, and make sure that they are your only point of focus or the point of which they need to talk to you. That is what showing genuine interest in others is. And then of course, you know, depending on the challenges that somebody is going through, be willing to help them whether that’s with the professional issue, whether it’s with a personal issue, I’m not saying get deep into you know, people’s people’s personal lives and help with that. But you know, for example, if somebody is struggling to get a doctor’s appointment for their son, at work time, that is, you know, a time outside of work, then allow them an hour and a half off to take that kid to work as kid to the doctors, it’s things like that, it’s just gonna again, foster this feeling of, of empathy, of trust of mutual respect. And that in itself is going to encourage employees to give those extra efforts. As we mentioned before, one to one meetings, check ins not always keeping it to the formal kind of appraisals or monthly reviews, just have a time in your diary, where you’re just gonna meet somebody find them up, see how they’re doing, maybe don’t even talk about work stuff, just see what what it is that’s impacting them at the moment. And I think we just keep an eye out on people, we all know those queues of people who are perhaps struggling a bit more, that may be coming in a bit later than usually are not looking as well presented. Maybe not as in engaged in conversations or is meeting keep an eye out for those those warnings of burnout. And ultimately, you know, you can you can absolutely use your your leadership instincts with this and new relationships with your team. But implementing some kind of employee analytics, some kind of employee engagement survey is going to help you understand how your people are currently feeling or what your current climate is. And also translating that into into your culture and how you can overlay this engaging climate with your company culture.

Al Elliott
Fantastic. Okay, so we’ll link to the article in the in the show notes. We also have a employee engagement product that we have ourselves, but it’s not the only one in the market. There’s plenty out there to choose from. Obviously, we think hours is the best. So if you go to our blog hq.com There’ll be a way you can get in touch with us there. If you’ve got any thoughts about the podcast or you want to be a guest or you want to recommend a guest or just any kind of feedback, then just email us podcast at oblong hq.com. And I think is there anything else you want to add for today?

Leanne Elliott
No, I think that’s it.

Al Elliott
Thank you for listening. And as ever, we would look forward to your feedback. Bye for now. Bye