Episode 335 · 10 September 2026 · 46:00

How storytelling saved Jurassic Park's company, with Corey Rosen

Featuring Corey Rosen

#storytelling #leadership #guest introduction #star wars #memory #workplace communication #decision making #sales

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Phil Tippett's story that saved the company
interview#storytelling #leadership #phil-tippett
Introducing Corey Rosen: storyteller and Star Wars ear-eraser
intro#storytelling #guest-introduction #star-wars
Why stories stick: from his mother's car accident to the kidney-stealing urban legend
interview#storytelling #memory #urban-legends
When to use a story at work and when to just give the answer
interview#storytelling #workplace-communication #decision-making
Building a story together: the sales pitch that didn't start with criticism
interview#storytelling #sales #constructing-stories
Anecdote vs story: the two lenses and the change principle
interview#anecdote-vs-story #storytelling #change-management
Baby shoes and the power of leaving space for the listener
interview#storytelling #listener-engagement #brevity
Bookending meetings with stories instead of bullet points
interview#meetings #storytelling #town-hall
Can leaders make up stories? Truth, vulnerability, and the Phil Tippett payoff
interview#leadership #vulnerability #storytelling
A Story for Everything: play, connection, and the three takeaways
interview#storytelling #play #connection

Show notes

How Storytelling Saved Jurassic Park's Company — with Corey Rosen

Guest: Corey Rosen — professional storyteller, host of The Moth's live shows in San Francisco, and former Industrial Light & Magic artist whose credits include Jurassic Park, the Star Wars prequels, and Jim Henson Productions.

The same information can create fear or buy-in — it all depends on how you deliver it. And according to Corey Rosen, the very best delivery system is a story.

Corey joins Al and Leanne to share the moment his old boss, legendary stop-motion animator Phil Tippett, called an all-hands meeting everyone assumed meant layoffs — and instead told a story that changed the entire mood of the room. They dig into why bullet points make people forget, why stories make people remember, and exactly when a leader should reach for a story instead of just giving the answer.

Top 3 Takeaways

How you deliver news matters more than the news itself. The same information can create fear or buy-in depending on whether it's delivered as data or as a story.
Lead change with the why. Before rolling out something new, start with the story behind the decision, not the announcement itself — so people come with you instead of resisting.
Know when to skip the story. If someone just wants a status update, give them the status update. Save story for moments that need real understanding or buy-in.

Connect With Us

Get in touch, book a call, or find Al and Leanne on LinkedIn — all in one place: truthliesandwork.com/connect

Mental health support: findahelpline.com — UK: Samaritans 116 123 · Mind 0300 123 3393 — US: 988 — Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14

Truth, Lies & Work is part of the HubSpot Podcast Network.

Full transcript

Expand full transcript

Al ElliottPhil Tippett is a legend in the movie business. He was the guy who created the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park. You might even remember that tweet where they said, come on, Phil, you had one job. But back in, in 2013 or thereabouts, his studio was in trouble. Layoffs seemed inevitable. So when Phil and his wife called an all-hands meeting, everyone in the room was already updating their resume in their head. He gets up to speak and he doesn't mention layoffs once. Instead, he tells a story about a haircut.

Leanne ElliottOur guest today, Corey Rosen, was in that room.

Corey RosenWe go into the screening room and Phil is standing there with his wife, Jules, who runs the company with him. And he tells a story. He doesn't say what's happened. He doesn't say the outcome. He tells us a story that he had a meeting to go to Los Angeles to meet with Kathy Kennedy, Kathleen Kennedy, the producer of the Star Wars movies and the Jurassic Park movies and things like that. And that Jules made him get a haircut. So the first thing that he says, gotta laugh, right? We're laughing. We're relating to the fact that this guy, he's got this kind of long, shaggy Santa Claus hair.

Al ElliottYeah.

Corey RosenAnd so she makes him clean up because we've gotta pitch ourselves to save the company to get this job.

Leanne ElliottCorey Rosen is a professional storyteller, hosts the Moth's live shows in San Francisco, and spent years working on Star Wars and Jurassic Park before all that.

Al ElliottAnd that one story that he remembers vividly did something an email never could have. It didn't just save the jobs in that room, it saved the whole spirit of the company.

Leanne ElliottCorey spent his career figuring out why some information vanishes the second you hear it, and some of it sticks for years. Today we're asking, what if your last big announcement fell flat, but not because of the news, but because of how you delivered it? Hello and welcome to Truth, Lies and Work, the award-winning podcast where behavioural science meets workplace culture, brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. My name is Leanne. I'm a chartered occupational psychologist.

Al ElliottMy name is Al. I'm a business owner.

Leanne ElliottAnd we are here to help you simplify the science of work.

Al ElliottOur guest today, Corey Rosen, ruined Star Wars, literally. Early in his career at Industrial Light and Magic, he was cleaning up a scene frame by frame and accidentally erased Harrison Ford's ear. It's still gone in the film, apparently. These days, he's a storytelling educator, and he's just written a book called A Story for Everything.

Leanne ElliottAnd here's why we wanted him on the show. As a leader, you're constantly Instantly deciding how to deliver information, feedback, bad news, a new system rollout, a pitch. Most of us default to bullet points because it feels efficient. Corey's argument is that this is exactly where we're losing people, and there's a simple shift that gets you buy-in instead of just compliance.

Al ElliottSo after the break, we'll find out what that shift is and why the meeting that could have been an email might be the one that saves your team. Does your experience with AI sound a little like this? You prompt for 20 minutes, the output is polished, is confident, and is completely flipping Useless. Well, that's what happens when AI doesn't know anything about your business.

Leanne ElliottMm-hmm. But you know what does know something about your business?

Al ElliottHubSpot.

Leanne ElliottHubSpot's AI. It works with your actual customer data, every interaction, every signal your team has generated over time. So instead of prompting and hoping, you ask once and ship it.

Al ElliottCheck out hubspot.com, the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.

Corey RosenMy name is Corey Rosen. I'm a storyteller and a storytelling educator. I live in the San Francisco area, and I guess I would be known for several things. I host The Moth, which is a storytelling show that we do here live in the San Francisco Bay Area. Probably also known for some of the media work that I've done. In fact, famously, I ruined Star Wars, so I'm known for that. And some of the other roles that I've had at Jim Henson, Phil Tippett Studios, Super 78, and other companies.

Al ElliottYou ruined Star Wars. How?

Corey RosenI ruined Star Wars. Yeah. I, um, so I worked one of my first ever jobs, you know, when I got outta college, I got hired by Lucasfilm Industrial Light and Magic at a very pivotal time in cinema history where movies were still being shot on film, but we were experimenting with computer graphics and animation. In fact, ILM had just made Jurassic Park, which the, when I started there, it was the summer that that movie came out in 1993. So everything was kind of pivoting into the digital realm, including Star Wars. And there hadn't been a new Star Wars film since Return of the Jedi 10 years before. And one of the first jobs I was given was to clean the movie digitally, like to scan it in and then to clean out every little speck of dirt and dust. And I accidentally cleaned Harrison Ford's ear in one shot, and it's completely gone. It's completely—

Leanne ElliottWow.

Corey RosenDisappeared. And it's still in that— in the movie that way. And I feel terrible about it, but also not so terrible because I made my contribution to the Star Wars universe, which is to open up the realm of possibility that sometimes Han Solo doesn't have an ear. Then I went on to work on the Star Wars prequels and many other films in my early career, which was also that impactful thing of going from being a sort of a taker to a maker, being someone who's consuming it to someone who is creating it for the next wave of people. And I think when I was young, I thought, nope, no, I couldn't do that. Nobody, you know, that's, that's some sort of special class of people. But I realized after time, it's just a job. There's hundreds, thousands of people who are working in entertainment and doing different kinds of entertainment tasks, which was really my lead-in to a lot of the work that I do today is helping people tell those kind of stories and make those kind of experiences.

Al ElliottLet's talk about story. Why is story so important?

Corey RosenAs a broadcaster yourself, I think you probably know better than most that there's all kinds of information we're gathering from a million different sources, whether it's flashing by on our phones or information that's being broadcast to us on billboards as you're driving down the highway. And there's the ones that stay with us and the ones that don't stay with us. And I think I, I mean, To tell you a little story about it. I think I realized this or learned this as a young kid, like many of us do, by listening to other people, by listening to your parents or your grandparents telling their stories. And in my case specifically, my mother is the kind of person— she's got many, she's got a nice social network of friends in her town where I grew up. And when something happens, like not too long ago, my mom got into a car accident. She and my dad were driving and they turned Left across like a 4-lane road and somebody had waved them in. So they had like said, you can go. So they were going, but then the car behind them did not see that. And they, you know, kind of hit right into the driver's or the passenger side where my mom was sitting. And she's okay, but she did crack 5 ribs and she's in her 80s. So that's not a small thing. You know, she had to go to the hospital and, and things like that. And while she was in the hospital, my dad was there with her.

Al ElliottMm-hmm.

Corey RosenAnd she told my dad she couldn't find one of the lenses from her glasses. It must have popped out during the car accident. So she sent him back while she's in the hospital same day to go back to the car to find the lens of her thing. He has to go to, you know, the tow yard where it's been towed to. You know, it's just this kind of crumpled can. And he goes and he finds the lens and he gets a phone call while he's there. Like, while you're there, could you go in the trunk? And get the rotisserie chicken that I just bought at the store. And so now my dad's salvaging the Costco groceries from the trunk of the car as well. So funny story, right? It's a funny moment. But more than that, when I was home, I was listening to my mom tell that story on the phone to one of her friends. And then she hung up the phone and somebody else called to check on her. And I heard her tell the same story again, but this time she was polishing it. She was tightening it. She was—

Al ElliottYeah.

Corey RosenImproving on it because probably she'd heard the way that the first person responded to it and reacted to it. And she was kind of unconsciously or consciously tightening up her story, making her own story better. And I think that I realized in that moment, that's where I get it from. People say like, how did you, why did you get into this world? It was unconscious for me. I was just, I've been listening to stories and I've been listening to people revising those stories. And I think that something clicked in my own brain, which is that this is a skill. This is something that we can get better at through practice. This is something that people can do. They can do it in, in groups together. And it's not just a natural or unnatural ability to do it. It's a consciousness. Can we think about the ways that we're communicating information? And if I wanted to tell you something about my mother, I could say, oh yeah, my mom was in a car accident. Be like, oh, I'm so sorry. We would move on. But in a 30-second anecdote about her and about something that she went through in the way that she is, I think that that's the power of stories and storytelling. And I try to help other people realize that is by giving us just, just enough that now we're connecting with you, we're connecting with your world, maybe how you see things, how you listen, how you observe. And that is all the work, like the heavy lifting that the kindest of all things through a story.

Leanne ElliottYeah.

Corey RosenYou've gotten to know somebody better and you've gotten to connect with them in some way that maybe you relate to them and you go, oh, I have a story like that too. And you've transcended the transactional nature of a lot of communications in general, and you've turned it into the personal.

Al ElliottI love this. One of my favorite books is, well, I've got 2 favorite books around stories. One of them is called Made to Stick by Chip and Dan Heath. And he talked, yep, talk about how stories I think they started off talking about the story of the person who woke up in a bath of ice. Yep.

Corey RosenYeah.

Al ElliottAnd right. Did you know that?

Corey RosenThe kidneys missing. Yeah. That, yeah. So it's a very famous urban legend, right? So we all heard this as a kid, right? That like he woke up in the bath of ice and I think in many versions it says something like, call the doctors. And there's some sort of a backstory about, you know, being careful what you, what you drink in a bar, who you meet, because it could be somebody who is out to steal your kidneys, right? So it's some general common sense wisdom that you might scare somebody with about being careful in public because the world is a dangerous place. But here is a legend, an urban legend that we've all heard somehow that sinks that story home. And that's what the Heaths do so well throughout Made to Stick is lessons about making your stories simple, you know, unexpected, concrete, credible. They have this whole system, SUCCESS, that spells out this phrase that is really you know, a tool for storytellers to make your stories more successful and more memorable.

Al ElliottI love the idea that you can, you can give some information via a story, but can we do that at work? Is that possible?

Corey RosenI believe so. I think that the, the concept, I mean, it depends on what the situation is, obviously, at work. Sometimes somebody asks you a question and They just want an answer. They don't want a whole story. I also know this from being married to someone who, every time I give her an answer about something, she's like, I just want the answer. I don't need the whole story. You know, there are times in our lives it's important to just give the information. But let's think, let's look at situations at work. Maybe it's leadership situations. Maybe you're giving some feedback or, you know, critique to an employee, or maybe you've got to rally your team. You've gotta deliver some news or some bad news. Or you have to give a presentation, a pitch presentation. I mean, these are all obviously different situations. Maybe you're in sales or marketing, a situation where, where you're maybe expected to tell stories, that you're using stories in that way. So I think if you think about situational storytelling opportunities, the takeaway is usually the same, which is that, that facts are hard to remember. Stories are easier to remember. They are stored and they activate different parts of our brains, right? Our emotional centers, our Visualization. We can picture what you're talking about. So if you're using some of those tools to communicate, even in very brief ways, what you're creating is you're creating more lasting impact on whoever you're talking to, whether it's an internal conversation or an external conversation. A good example of this too comes in situations where maybe at work you have to communicate some information to somebody who then has to communicate that information to the next person, to their boss, to their supervisor, to their client. Again, if you're just giving them bullet points or you're just giving them information and data, they may pass on that data. Sometimes that's what they want. Give me the answer and you get the answer. But if you want to, if you want to influence, if you want to persuade, if you want to encourage them to see things from your point of view, a story is a better way. A story is a more effective, memorable, and kind of enjoyable way of communicating in that way. And if people know that they're going to remember this information, then, uh, they should be trying this on their own and seeing, does it work? The worst case, the worst thing that could happen is that it doesn't work, but they've heard a good story. So there could be an upside regardless.

Al ElliottYou've said there a couple of times that some people just want the answer. They don't want a story. So, I mean, do you, have you got a way of finding out when someone just wants a yes or no, or a story's a better idea? Sure.

Corey RosenI mean, it depends on the framing of the question. So if the question is a direct challenge, like, do you have this information? And you can say, yes, I do. Here's the information. That's a very transactional communication. But if there's, why do you think this is happening? Or what did you notice? Or what happened when you went to visit that client? You know, you could say, oh, I get, I did the presentation and they said they would get back to me. Right? Maybe that is actually what happened. But I think if you look at, if you broaden sort of the lens of that, you know, you're giving a report back to your team or your leader in your group about a client visit or a client communication, you might paint the picture of what this client is like, of what their office environment is like, of what they're facing based on your observation. What I notice is they seem to be here because of this. So now you are creating understanding and now you're developing and deepening that relationship. And those kinds of insights and observations too might turn that interaction with that particular client into something more lasting because now you're writing back to them or you're talking to them, you're asking follow-up questions about something that they said or that, that, that happened while you were there with them. So in situations where the, the, the why of the conversation is understanding or deeper insight, That those are probably the better places to use a story than if it is just, you know, like, what is the status of this? I will have it for you by 4 o'clock. You don't need a story for that.

Al ElliottSo let's try and construct a story. Let's create an investment situation that you just said there. So I have gone, visited a client on a sales call, um, and, um, I need to come back and they've said, I will think about it. Now I could just, just if someone says, how'd it go? I go, they thought, oh, they're gonna say, I think about it. I could say that. But I sense that you are gonna be able to help me construct a better story. So talk me through it. Stage 1, what am I thinking about?

Corey RosenAll right, well, let's, I mean, honestly, let's get, is there a real situation that you may have been in recently where you were talking to somebody, maybe an upcoming, you know, prospect or client, or, or maybe the other side, somebody that, that was hiring you or you were hiring them, uh, some kind of a transactional business relationship that you might have been in?

Al ElliottOkay, so I won't go into the specifics 'cause the deal's still going, but there is a company who's interested in talking to us about creating some bespoke content, uh, for them, um, around workplace using the same way that Leanne and I have on our podcast. So it's like a bit more interesting content than just a boring demonstration video.

Corey RosenBeautiful, beautiful. So if we're thinking about now what this story is that we're telling, let's also think about what is the audience? Are we telling this to the person or are you telling this To, let's pretend, for example, that somebody is investing a ton of new money into you, into your show, into your company. And this kind of deal could be the thing that helps that, right? All right, let's imagine that, that there's somebody out listening right now that says, this is the one I wanna add my sponsorship dollars right here because this is exactly the kind of content that I want, right? So framing it that way, how might you communicate to me about this meeting that you just had without going into the specifics? 'Cause everything is still, you know, The ink is wet and things like that. But how might you make me care? I guess, how would you make me interested in what's going on with that besides just, oh, that sounds like a good thing for you? So, so try a version where whatever comes out is framed around that, which is that you're trying to excite me about something that, that is happening that might, might sort of open me. Up to understanding you.

Al ElliottNow, this is an interesting situation because imagine that, because imagine where this deal is done and I'm now telling you as someone who might want the similar kind of deal. All right. So this makes a little bit more, hey, so I'm selling you this idea. So my instinct would be to start off and go, look, you have a SaaS that deals with HR. You've got an HR-based SaaS. It's kind of flat. Your website's a little bit Boring. Um, I think that we can make a better, some better content for you that might be a bit more engaging. And there's also a third-party certified and occupational psychologist who can actually bring something to the table. Now, Corey, I know that that is an awful way to sell this, so please pick that apart and, and coach me on how to make it better.

Corey RosenTotally. Okay. So the first thing you said was you criticized my SaaS, right? You said it was awful. It was bad. It was boring. And so you've already put me on the defensive, right? You've already told me like, what, you don't like me? You're criticizing me. Some people eat that up. Some people, they take that as a challenge and they want to go at you and they want to attack you back. I, my style, I'm a little bit more, I guess, on the softer side of that, which is to say, again, framing things as a story. Hey, you know, I had an interesting experience yesterday. I was working with this company that's in the SaaS space, right? They, They do that and they're really concerned, you know, because they've really owned this space. Their tools are very usable. They have a strong customer base, but they're nervous because AI is showing up. People are writing their own tools. People are replacing what they're buying from this company with their own thing. And to be honest, I am doing the same thing. I'm looking at my own ways of how can I not be using that tool? And then I realized that there was something different about this particular company, and it wasn't the technology, it wasn't the tool, it was the people that I was talking with. I knew that I was getting really good customer service from them, and I liked that every time I called them, somebody was answering me, and it felt like a person, not a robot, not an automated response. And what I've realized is that in this evolving world, I am putting value on the people still, even if the tools are making us faster, better, easier to communicate with. I'm, I'm still putting value on— I don't know, I'm just spitballing this, but the idea is I've taken your encounter and I've turned it into a frame, uh, a story in the simplest definition of a story, is that stories are about things that change, right? It was like this, something happened to upset that, and something changed at the end. I had a different perspective. So even just by framing it in that way, what was that too long? How long was that story that I told?

Al ElliottThat was great. And what I liked about that is that you had in that story, you had jeopardy. There's something coming for you. Um, you had empathy. Um, you had all the bits, all the, all the aphasies, all the ATHYs in there that we just built this, this story. And I wanna just stick to, this is the, I know we're gonna go off topic slightly here or off my topic. You said stories are all about change. One of my favorite stories, Breaking Bad, it is literally about change. Tell me more about how stories are about change.

Corey RosenYeah. So the, the ways that I try to look at stories in general is 2 different lenses is how I've framed stories. The first and easiest one is that a story differs from an anecdote in that an anecdote is something that happened, right? I woke up, I made some breakfast, I poured myself a cup of coffee, I checked my email. That's not a story. Those are things that have happened, right? I went to see a show and I came home, right? I went to see a show last night. I went as an audience member and they asked me to tell a story in the show, right? Still not a story. This is just something that happened. I haven't told you anything there because there's nothing that's changed from the beginning to the end of that statement. The difference between it being a story is that there was some condition, any kind of condition, and because of what happened, I came back in a different way. So if I take the situation of going last night to see a show, I just went to go see a show to support some people who were doing a storytelling show, but they needed somebody to step in in a role. So they asked, would I mind? And my first instinct was no, uh, I wouldn't mind. I should have said no to them and said, I just came to watch the show, but I found that I like to be on stage. I like to do this. So by the end of this, people were thanking me and congratulating me, even though I just kind of went to help them out. So I felt good. Maybe it was a little bit self-serving, but in the end I had a good time and I felt like I was part of the show, or at least I helped to support the show. So now I've turned a thing that happened into a story because there was a beginning and an end. Something was changed, whether it was internal or external. I did say that there were 2 different definitions because I do recognize that sometimes nothing is different in the end. Even to some extent, Breaking Bad is this wonderful, amazing show where, yes, on the surface, he goes through this giant change from being, you know, a well-respected high school teacher to being the biggest, most powerful drug cartel in the world. You know, sorry, spoiler for people who are 10 years behind. But he has physically changed, but The soul of Walt, Walter White, is kind of the same in a way. Like, he always had that in him. He was discovering what that is. So the second kind of story for me, where something— sometimes nothing changes. What changes is your perspective. That this is what happened, and nothing changed at the end of that thing. But I look at that now, and what I realize because I went through that is life is like this. Sometimes You need the right conditions to discover the badass that you really are or something, you know, like that there's some internal learning or lesson that the world is no different. Everything doesn't have to affect grand change. It could be change to you, change to your point of view, change to how you will do things in the future. So that kind of a perspective shift. Is so helpful to kind of pivot in our minds because then stories can be really simple. And oftentimes people wanna tell every story. They'll say like, oh, let me tell you my story. And they'll tell their entire life story and it'll go on and on and on. And there's actually no story there. What they're just saying is a bunch of things that they've done or achievements that they've accomplished. But if you wanna tell somebody your life story, maybe you just tell it in 30 seconds or 60 seconds about a moment.

Al ElliottYeah.

Corey RosenWhere things changed for you. And that moment kind of can sum up your life about discovering who I was and who I wanted to be. And that's my life story is who I am, not what I've done.

Leanne ElliottWelcome to the break.

Al ElliottYes. My favorite part of the show. They, these, these 2 idiots have stopped talking.

Leanne ElliottYes. I want to tell you about my new favorite podcast. No, that's a lie. It's my old favorite podcast.

Al ElliottI've been on this for a while. Didn't know where that was going. Didn't know where that was going.

Leanne ElliottIt is called I Digress. It is hosted by Troy Sandage, and it is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.

Al ElliottYes, it's got shows that are under 30 minutes, and I Digress helps eliminate complexity, complications, and confusion in your business with frameworks and strategies that achieve scalable and sustainable success. At least that's what it says here.

Leanne ElliottAnd if you do want to hear a really personal story, go to episode 136. This is Troy's honest account of fatherhood killing hustle culture. And what really matters when you stop performing and start living with intention.

Al ElliottListen to I Digress wherever you get your podcasts.

Leanne ElliottThat concludes the break.

Al ElliottLet's return to the scheduled programming.

Leanne ElliottBack to the studio.

Al ElliottI seem to remember it might have been Hemingway who wrote this for the world's, you know, competition with his friends to write the shortest story. It was something like children's shoes for sale, never worn, or something like that. Yes.

Corey RosenYeah.

Al ElliottAnd then I think about Jimmy Carr and his jokes.

Corey RosenBaby, I think it's baby shoes for sale, never worn.

Al ElliottYes, exactly. Exactly. That point, what nothing changes in the story. What changes for us is the bit of us going, oh shit. Oh, I've just filled in a bit there. Same with Jimmy Carr. Great comedian. They will tell a story, they'll tell a, a joke, but it's a story, isn't it? And then they'll either subvert it or allow you to come to your own conclusion and complete the story yourself. Can normal people do that, or is that just for the professionals?

Corey RosenNo, I think normal people should. I think that's exactly the essence of it. And it's another thing you mentioned, Made to Stick, the brilliant book by Dan and Chip Heath, which has these kind of principles that I think people can apply. So you talk about that, the baby shoes. You know, for sale, never worn. It's sort of 3 2-word sentences, right? Baby shoes for sale, never worn. Each one gives you a visual, right? I see baby shoes. I know what baby shoes look like. Maybe the version in your head is a different color or design, but we understand the concept of that. So there's a concrete, visualizable, and understandable, relatable element. Super important in whatever communication you have. For sale. Now we understand the action of this story, that these baby shoes are being sold. Okay, so now there's an implied story. We are understanding that they're no longer needed because the baby has grown, because they're no longer needed because something has happened. And then you get to the conclusion of the story, for sale, never worn, completes the story because everything we have assumed that the baby is alive, that the baby is well and good, that this is a healthy, happy, normal situation. Has implied without saying that there was a horrible tragedy, that baby never got to wear these shoes because something happened. We don't know exactly what. And it opens up our emotional center. So let's put all these together. We've got the credibility, or rather the visual ability, the concreteness of the baby shoes that we can see. We have the understanding of the plot, which is that they're being sold. And then we have the heart, the emotional connection to—

Leanne ElliottRight.

Corey RosenWhy I should care is because I love babies, or I understand that somebody would've loved or cared for whoever this story is about. So there's an empathic response. And all in all, it's why you and I and people have heard this and remember this, because it didn't just tell us something that happened, it gave us the why and it connected us to that. And these are concepts that people can apply. You know, if you think about your next communication, Instead of just yammering on, think about why am I talking or why am I still talking? What am I trying to really say? And can I say it in a way that is relatable, visualizable, understandable, credible, concrete, all of these visual images and emotional? You know, can I connect with it in some way? Many people say that a good story also reveals some vulnerability, that the storyteller puts themselves out there a little bit because Often we try to present ourselves as the best, strongest, most interesting, intelligent version of ourselves. But the more memorable is the failure, the relatability to, I know what it's like to not be perfect. I know what it's like to learn, to grow, to change, to lose a client, and to learn from that is something that I might take away from my interaction.

Al ElliottInteresting. Yeah. So there's 2 things went through my head when you were talking. First of all, oh, you don't have to give all of the facts. You can let people complete it in their head? And secondly, how do we translate that to work? Like, I don't want to tell a partially a story where people have to complete it in their head, yet at the same time, I want to run a town hall where everyone's leaning forward and listening. So Corey, how are we balancing this?

Corey RosenWell, think about those kind of things. You're giving a town hall, you're giving an all-hands meeting, you're giving a presentation to people, and usually The standard format is what? Like, this is the agenda and they're gonna go down a list of bullet points of what's happening there. And it's the, now the adage or the cliché that this could have been an email. And the truth is it, it could have, you know, why are we doing this in person? Why are we even here in the first place altogether? So one thing I try to do, uh, I even, I don't know if you noticed, I did it today. I try to start with a story, you know, I try to lead with something that's a little bit unexpected. So you asked me to tell me about my life and I told you I ruined Star Wars. And you instantly took the bait and you leaned in. You're like, what do you mean you ruined Star Wars? And it led to a story that you asked me to tell that I, that you leaned into it. That's why I think in a lot of situations, even in a Zoom meeting or in a conversation you're having, by opening not with the agenda, but with a short piece of you, a piece of something that just happened, something that was interesting, you know, and it doesn't have to be a major thing that took to, you know, divert the entire conversation to make it all about you. But when you show up, you, the you character shows up in this meeting, now you've created or deepened some kind of connection. Now I understand the context of where you're coming from, and maybe that helps to set the pace for where we're gonna go through this meeting or this conversation. I say that especially because in the digital age, when we are not even in person, that as often as we used to be when many of our meetings are, you know, on Zooms and whatnot. We know that outside of the box that we're talking in, there's probably an email window and a document that you're working on and some other thing. There's all kinds of distractions right here. There's also whatever was just happening before that you're still thinking about. There's what you have to do next that you're thinking about. So attention is the most precious resource, right?

Al ElliottNatural resource.

Corey RosenHow do we hold somebody else's attention? How do we share and give them our attention? Stories. You know, if you could tell someone a story, it gives them a reason that I can't be half listening to this to really understand what's going on. So when we utilize a little bit of that, a little bit of ourselves, communicate it with stories, what it does is it shrinks that space and all those distractions just for the briefest moment. My go away, kind of go out of focus, and we're just here listening to that person. We're with them. And that's what I think we should be trying to do all the time.

Al ElliottNow, I think I've just come to a realization. I made an erroneous conclusion before that if I'm doing— if I'm running a meeting, then I need to make the entire meeting a story. But correct me if I've got— if I'm wrong. What you just used there was a story to almost bookend the meeting. to get the engagement. Is that correct?

Corey RosenDefinitely. And I think that that applies across various other kinds of communications. I don't mean that the whole meeting is one big story. I mean, if there's some, um, say that there's some new initiative that we want to implement, you could say, here's the new initiative. From now on, we need to hit this target. Instead of starting with that, let's start with a story about what happened, about what, about something that the, the lesson, the learning, the teaching of that is that we needed to make a change. And now here's what we're going to change. So now what you've done is you've gotten the team to understand the why, to buy in on it, and to maybe have their own story about why this is a good thing going forward versus fearing the unknown. Why are we changing? We keep— we just changed that 6 months ago. Why are we changing again? Now the story has helped me understand that. You could say that the same thing would apply in, I don't know, in a toast that you giving at a party or a wedding, sometimes people will come in with a kind of way too inside joke or insider story that nobody really seems to understand. But if you go in a way that I'm going to tell a story about something that happened, not because it was funny to me and to them, but because it's something that these people will now understand a different nature of them. I'm actually teaching the family that you're marrying into that don't know you something about how you think. How you pivot, how you, uh, how you deal with something unexpected. So I'm not just telling a story to— for entertainment, I'm telling a story to teach them. And then that will lead into my toast that might reinforce, you know, to, you know, to, to pivoting throughout your marriage, to making change when you least expect it. You know, like maybe there's a, there's a toast or a teaching that comes out of that memory and that story. So yes, the whole meeting doesn't need to be one big story, but well-placed stories can take the content that you wanna teach and make it more understandable.

Al ElliottSo if I imagine we're in a, in a meeting and I need to tell my team that we are now, we are now changing our, the system that we use. So we're going to an AI-based system for doing whatever, whatever it is, accounting, whatever. Then I've got 2 options. I sort of can go, Hey team, right? Just wanna update you that we are no longer using system A, we're using system B. It's AI augmented, so it should make things better for you. Okay? Let me know if you got— so that's option A. Option B, I sense, is you go, do you remember when we started using system A? And do you remember the guy who came in and he talked to us about, is that, is that the kind of right thing to me?

Corey RosenYeah.

Al ElliottYeah.

Corey RosenSo now I'm remembering that moment. I'm remembering that aha. I'm remembering that feeling. And now I'm sinking it into, well, we've just— I've just signed a 6-month trial, you know, that we're getting access to all of that guy's tools. And let's try these out and, um, and then let's check in and see how they're working for us to see so we can measure what's better and how we want to move forward. Now you're including the team in the story. You're not saying you've got to go now back into training and learn a whole new system. You're including them in the why and that whole thing. So So, I think that little bit of invested time into understanding the backstory, the, let's call it the once upon a time in the story, so that we can sort of see the vision of where we're going and where we're headed. And that way, teams can communicate better. They can be more in sync with each other, and they can also listen and understand from what's happened through their own experiences.

Al ElliottAll right, so I'm a manager and/or a leader, and I wanna tell a story.

Corey RosenI mean, I think so. Of course. I mean, you're allowed to do whatever you want. I don't think that I would generally say lie. You know, I think truth, as I said, sort of vulnerability, credibility, authenticity, these are important aspects for me to understand and relate to you. But there could be hypotheticals, you know, like I'm imagining that this is what's gonna happen. I can make something up. If you're just totally making up, you know, a story, I would say, you know, Fake clients, fake data, I think will catch on is the deal. There is a story here. I'll tell you a quick story that was in my book, Story for Everything, which is about a specific all-hands meeting that happened at a company I was working with that does special effects, as I mentioned, for movies and TV shows. And the company was having some financial trouble. The company was lacking clients, needed a big job, a big win. to move forward or we were going to be done. And I think everybody at the company had this feeling. There was a sense around the studio that things aren't going so well and we might be needing to update our resumes and LinkedIn profiles pretty soon. And the boss called us all for an all-hands meeting into the main conference room, screening room for this company. And we knew that it was either good news or bad news. It was likely to be Layoffs or downsizing or some kind of a thing. And people were sort of steeled and they all came together into this room and we all crammed in. There's only about 50 or 60 people total in this company. And the boss is, is well known. So now I'll tell you who it is. It's Phil Tippett, who is the sort of legendary stop-motion animator who created iconic characters for the Star Wars movies, the AT-ATs in Return of the Jedi or Empire Strikes Back, the Tauntaun, his stop-motion animated Jabba the Hutt. He's literally in the cantina band playing one of the instruments because he made all the masks and the character makeup. So a sort of legend in that world. And he's got his own studio. And among the movies that he won Oscars for, Academy Awards for, was Jurassic Park as the dinosaur supervisor for the first Jurassic Park movie. And we go into the screening room, and Phil is standing there with his wife, Jules, who runs the company with him. And he tells a story. He doesn't say what's happened. He doesn't say the outcome. He tells us a story that he had a meeting to go to Los Angeles to meet with Kathy Kennedy, Kathleen Kennedy, the producer of the Star Wars movies and the Jurassic Park movies, things like that. And that Jules made him get a haircut. So the first thing that he says, gotta laugh, right? We're laughing. We're relating to the fact that this guy who, if you know Phil, he's a worker, he's a hands-on crafter. He's always got You know, scabs and bloody knuckles and Band-Aids on his hands. And he's got this kind of long, shaggy Santa Claus hair. So Phil, or Jules, made him get a haircut. And he goes down for a big meeting because there's a new Jurassic movie being made, Jurassic World. And so she makes him clean up because we've got to pitch ourselves to save the company, to get this job. And The upshot is he walks into the room and it's not a meeting. There's a camera crew, there's video cameras that are filming him because there's a documentary being made about them offering him the job. So he goes in thinking he's gotta sell the company. Instead, they're selling him. Would you please come back to Jurassic? Would you please lend your expertise and your, and your experience and your knowledge to this? So it was this huge, for the, for the staff of the company, like, mm-hmm.

Leanne ElliottMm-hmm.

Corey RosenLike, not just like, yay, we're saved, our jobs are saved, but like, but like the soul of the company got saved that day that we all knew that we're now part of something that we all could be excited about, that we're carrying on something that was part of our DNA. Sorry for the Jurassic Park allusion, but into the, into the future. And again, you could have sent an email. We got Jurassic Park. Congratulations. Thanks to everybody who did this. Or he could tell us the story. And by telling the story, it created a moment that nobody in that room will ever forget. We're all connected about it. We're all now excited about the company. And it kept the spirit of what ended up being part, really part of the, of working at that and working with that company is this sort of, we, we all get the haircut when we need to. We all clean up when we have to. We all have to do what we have to do sometimes. And sometimes it's just luck. that we get the break that we needed when we needed it.

Al ElliottI've just remembered where I heard Phil Tippett from. There was a famous tweet, I think, at him going, you had one job, Phil.

Corey RosenExactly. Exactly. You had one job. And the, yes, so the meme, if people aren't familiar, is that at the end of Jurassic Park, it says dinosaur supervisor Phil Tippett. And so the joke is people died. Like, what do you mean dinosaur supervisor? This guy had one job to supervise the dinosaurs and everybody got eaten and killed. So, um, he has carried and, and, uh, perpetuated that. Well, he hasn't perpetuated, people have kept this concept that Phil Tippett had one job. Um, and in this case, he had one job, which was to, to keep his staff working. And, uh, and he did that job. So he had a second job for those keeping score.

Al ElliottCorey, Story for Everything, the book that is due out in December, is that correct? Or is it out now?

Corey RosenNo, it just came out. It came out this, this past December. So it's out. It's available everywhere books are sold.

Al ElliottYes. Tell me, can you tell me one more story from there? Just whet people's appetite a little bit more for the book.

Corey RosenAbsolutely. So my book is called A Story for Everything. The thesis of it is that everything is better in story form. So there's a few principles and things that hold all stories together. I think we talked about some of them today about having a beginning, middle, and end, like having kind of an arc to that story about specificity, about details, about vulnerability. And what I did for this book was I gave specific examples of situations that people may be in or are in where they could use those. So that could be writing or crafting, um, a eulogy or a wedding toast. It could be something at school where you're trying to write a, a fundraising ask letter or a request for some kind of a change or service. Um, or it could be at work, it could be your job interview skills, it could be the letter that you write to outreach to somebody or, uh, inspiring your team. So what I've done throughout the book is I've given examples of cases and ways that we could use those in work, in school, and at home. So you asked me for one example. One of the home cases that I gave is talking with aging, like with grandparents or maybe people that are having memory issues. And what I love to use, because it's part of my background, are games. I think play and activities and games are great ways to learn things and to practice skills. In an abstracted way. So what I've also put in the book are some activities. So things that you can actually do, try, use with yourself or with your team, with your friends, with your family. And one of the games in there that has to do with memory care is that, you know, dementia and Alzheimer's are these horrible, you know, ailments that kind of erase the book from the back of the book is the idea that you remember things that happened long ago, but you can't remember what's hap— what did it, what did we just talk about and what did I do yesterday? So my father-in-law, who has now since passed 2 years to the day, who died 2 years ago today to the recording of this, he was an amazing, witty, lovely human being. His name was John, and I loved the way he would tell jokes and crack me up. But as the disease eroded his mind, that part of him seemed lost. And one day I was talking with him and I asked him if he wanted to tell a story with me. And he said, how do we do it? And I said, we do it one word at a time. And I taught him this very simple, playful game where we told the story word by word. And because he didn't have to remember anything, all he had to do is know the word that I had just said and add the next word. The stories that came out were hilarious. They were funny. We were laughing. He was laughing in a way that I hadn't seen him laugh.

Al ElliottYeah.

Corey RosenIn a long time because that part of him, the confused part, the scared part, the upset, the disrupt to this, to his brain. But what we found is there's another part of his brain that was still there, and it was the creative center. It was the humor center. And sometimes creating moments and creating stories through play is the best way to train ourselves and to connect with others. So there are activities like that throughout the book. There are ways that people can also connect with others in communities. For example, my website, yourstoryweltold.com, has some free resources that people can use to tell their own stories better. We have, of course, a member community where you can connect with other people that are interested in this, and we do free classes and trainings and tools and activities. So I highly encourage people to check out yourstoryweltold.com and to reach out if you need to tell better stories in Work, home, or life.

Leanne ElliottThat was Corey Rosen. Let's get into the top 3 takeaways for anyone who has to deliver news to a team. Number 1, how you deliver news changes what it does to a team, good or bad. Everyone in that room expected layoffs. Instead, Phil told a story, and by the time they realized it was good news, the whole company felt it together. Corey's point is that the story didn't just deliver the information, It saved the soul of the company. Yeah.

Al ElliottAnd number 2, before you roll out a change, lead with the story, not the mandate. Corey's example was as simple as swapping software. Instead of saying, we're moving to system B, start with why the switch matters, the story behind it, and people come with you instead of resisting you.

Leanne ElliottAnd number 3, not everything needs a story. If someone just wants a status update, give them the status update.

Al ElliottSave the story for the moments where you actually need understanding or You can find Corey at yourstoryweltold.com, and his book, A Story for Everything, is out now.

Leanne ElliottThat's it for today. Next time you're tempted to send the announcement as an email, ask yourself, what would the story version sound like?

Al ElliottThis is Truth, Lies and Work. We'll see you next week.

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EP 30219 May 2026